Question:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Dave Groves writes: << … Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions … Dave, I think what Mike is saying is that he is not yet experiencing very good control. Newly-diagnosed people in this group have reported feeling hypo-y at 135! As we bring our b.g.’s down, the hypo threshhold falls too. Then again, Mike might be saying that because he is very active he has trained himself to be accutely aware of his bg, to the point that he can detect a drop below 85. But who am I to guess at what Mike is saying, you guys know far better than I.
But each of us knows only one thing for certain with diabetes, how it affects us individualy. Who’s knows there body better than the person who happens to reside in it! Regards Pete m
– Peter Marks Please note, creative spelling courtesy of DYSLEXIA
Response:
But tell me Dave, when do we newbies REALLY begin to understand? Is there a magic figure (like 22.754 years) when it all comes together, or do we only begin to get a grip after we barrel our cars into some innocent bystander like you did? Beav. For far too many just now, That is not when they begin to get a grip It is when they realize they need one. However… Getting one Often never happens. You must have a big pair of balls to lecture accident free drivers on safety after doing what YOU did. If I were the licensing authority over there, I’d jerk your ticket faster than you could ever imagine. Beav. He’s trying to tell 36% of us how NOT to do what he did, The rest of us should not have a problem. It appears you belong to the majority, As do I. As I said. I support Dave because I see the increase in diabetics who need to get a grip on the problem of hypoglycemia. Not because I have said problem. I have met others here who have had the problem, Some of them have switched Why do you keep fighting? I’m not asking you to switch (Though I did see a letter that suggests you may be asked, however not by me, or by dave, to do so) I just wish to have a CHOICE and not be railroaded into using a product that may be dangerous long term (And should I ever have a problem I want to be able to switch and see if that cures it) To me, the studies Dave cites… Are a bit scary, Even if there are other studies which seem to support human as being safe, However the best studies I have seen show it as being "no more dangerous" and unless you are allergic to animal-insulin (What can I say, some folks are, which is why we do need "Human" ) nobody has proven "human" better. "Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business" In every work of genius we recognize our ideas! 
Net-Tamer V 1.08X – Registered
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But tell me Dave, when do we newbies REALLY begin to understand? Is there a magic figure (like 22.754 years) when it all comes together, or do we only begin to get a grip after we barrel our cars into some innocent bystander like you did? Beav. For far too many just now, That is not when they begin to get a grip It is when they realize they need one. However… Getting one Often never happens. You must have a big pair of balls to lecture accident free drivers on safety after doing what YOU did. If I were the licensing authority over there, I’d jerk your ticket faster than you could ever imagine. Beav. He’s trying to tell 36% of us how NOT to do what he did, The rest of us should not have a problem. It appears you belong to the majority, As do I.
John, He’s trying to tell us that 36% need to go back on animal insulin to stop the problem, as if by doing so, the problem will magically disappear. That is NOT the same as telling us how not to do what he did, and in the end, all the telling in the NG isn’t going to make any difference. Lilly and Novo are going to quit producing (or at least selling) animal insulins in the USA no matter WHAT we (and that includes ALL of us) say. It’s a sad reflection on large companies when they do these things, and an even sadder (even criminal) day for diabetics who WANT and NEED animal, but negative arguments NEVER win. ie Get "this" because the other’s crap" isn’t going to work. Better to say "Keep "this" because for some it works BETTER than any other" As I said. I support Dave because I see the increase in diabetics who need to get a grip on the problem of hypoglycemia. Not because I have said problem.
And strangely I support Dave in his effort to either force, cajole or convince Lilly and Novo into maintaining animal inulins too, I just don’t support the WAY he’s doing it by putting down MY insulin and trying to convince human users that even if they’re not having problems at present, they WILL have them in the future. That’s basically guaranteeing a problem and even good ENDO’S make no guarantees about ANYTHING related to diabetes. I have met others here who have had the problem, Some of them have switched Why do you keep fighting? I’m not asking you to switch (Though I did see a letter that suggests you may be asked, however not by me, or by dave, to do so)
I couldn’t switch even if I wanted too. And I keep on fighting because I don’t like the WAY the fight is being fought for the continuation of animal. Get this fight onto a level field where the argument FOR animal, isn’t AGAINST human, and doesn’t have those happy on human living in fear of futue "problems" that have been GUARANTEED by Dave Groves, and I’ll be on your side of the fence faster than a bishop gets his hands up a…… I just wish to have a CHOICE and not be railroaded into using a product that may be dangerous long term (And should I ever have a problem I want to be able to switch and see if that cures it)
And I want the same choice, although I KNOW that I’ll not USE animal. To me, the studies Dave cites… Are a bit scary, Even if there are other studies which seem to support human as being safe,
This is also a concern of mine. One study will always support one side, and another study will support the other, so all the "Cites" anyone quotes on here are BOUND to support their argument. (They’d be daft to post a report supporting the OTHER side) One reason why I don’t give them any real credence. However the best studies I have seen show it as being "no more dangerous" and unless you are allergic to animal-insulin (What can I say, some folks are, which is why we do need "Human" ) nobody has proven "human" better.
Nobody has proven human better for EVERYONE, and nobody has proved ANIMAL is better for everyone either, so it’s stalemate on that, and that’s good enough for me to support animal AND human, but not by using one type AGAINST the other. Beav
Response:
My memory is not so great, but I think if I were to review the posts of the past two weeks, there would be one of you confirming what I said, Mike. I believe you admitted to either relatively high b.g.’s or HbA1c’s. Now, it’s not a sin … we are here to help each other, for crying out loud. It would be easier if you would ‘fess up.
ya love to bait me, dontchya. I said my A1c’s were not in the "normal" range. Do you have any idea how foolish you come off with these "you confirming what I said" posts? Do you notice that you and Dave do it in every post? Do you realize it confirms what I said? And this term "admit"…. Do you have any idea how fatuous that is? Do you notice that you and Dave do it in every post? Do you realize you are admitting what I said? luv m
Response:
Dave Groves writes: << … Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions … Dave, I think what Mike is saying is that he is not yet experiencing very good control. Newly-diagnosed people in this group have reported feeling hypo-y at 135! As we bring our b.g.’s down, the hypo threshhold falls too. Susie
We are talking about the SAME Mike Gray, self-appointed defender of "truth" and expert on diabetes and insulins? Dave Groves
Response:
Mike says: << … Then again, Mike might be saying that because he is very active he has trained himself to be accutely aware of his bg, to the point that he can detect a drop below 85. But who am I to guess at what Mike is saying, you guys know far better than I. My memory is not so great, but I think if I were to review the posts of the past two weeks, there would be one of you confirming what I said, Mike. I believe you admitted to either relatively high b.g.’s or HbA1c’s. Now, it’s not a sin … we are here to help each other, for crying out loud. It would be easier if you would ‘fess up. Susie
Response:
Dave Groves writes: << … Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions … Dave, I think what Mike is saying is that he is not yet experiencing very good control. Newly-diagnosed people in this group have reported feeling hypo-y at 135! As we bring our b.g.’s down, the hypo threshhold falls too.
Then again, Mike might be saying that because he is very active he has trained himself to be accutely aware of his bg, to the point that he can detect a drop below 85. But who am I to guess at what Mike is saying, you guys know far better than I. m
Response:
dejanews.com writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dejanews.com writes dejanews.com writes Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!! In any orchestra Dave, you’ll find a fiddle section. It’ll just get bigger I hope your right, but I believe you are wrong. I urge you to find out for sure. There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered. I HAD gathered Dave, it’s just your idea’s are a LOT out in left field! I have supported my ideas with cites from generally accepted, peer-reviewed scientific journals, Beav. Would you be kind enough to do the same? Not a chance! I told you I don’t read journals and reports just to build up a database of crappy claims which vary more wildly than the weather on top of Mount Everest. Would you be so kind as to turn in your drivers license?
I suppose you’d like my pilot’s licence too? You are a high risk to all of us who would like to retain ours.
Well of course I am. Me that’s NEVER been unconcious and have NEVER needed a third party to EVER get me ANY help. Hot flash, my brother, what YOU as an individual diabetic think about YOUR diabetes, is irrelevant in a courtroom where YOU are charged with homicide and given what you’ve posted here, with 11 years of diabetes under your belt, you are precisely why the UK is reconsidering licensing diabetics.
That must go down as the worst argument I’ve ever heard. So bad in fact, that it doesn’t even deserve a comment. You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong, I am, and they may well NOT be but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms.
Mmm. YOU’VE hit a car at 65 and I’ve not. Guess who *I’D* rather be sat next to. I DO get symptoms, very CLEAR symptoms and the first one’s usually hit an hour or so before I run into problems concentrating, but they don’t happen until I’m well below 3mm/l. That scares me, Beavis. For one thing, it sounds disingenuous. At what level do you get "very CLEAR" symptoms? Around the 2.5mm/l mark, depending on what I’m doing. 2.5 on a home meter is 2.8 lab venous plasma. By the time you are getting such symptoms, according to all medical evidence I can find, you’ve been incapable of driving for quite a while and will lose your license, ok?
You have very limited reading capabilities Daved. Go back over my posts and you’ll see that I don’t drive when my sugar is low or even if there’s a chance that it WILL go low while I AM driving. I make sure of that (as evidenced by the fact that my cars and van are all scratch free) But of course you’re right, by the time I get the symptoms of an approaching hypo, I probably AM too low to be driving, which is why I test before to make sure my sugar isn’t in (or even close) to that region. Note that I am NOT saying they are right, not even saying you already suffer from HGU, but it is pretty obvious you do.
Not a bit of it. I know when a hypo is on the way and I know for at least an hour before it REALLY hits. That’s not unawareness, that’s EXCELLENT awareness. If I DID get my first warning shot while I was driving, I know that I’d at least have time to pull over and drink a can, if not eat a three course high carbo meal. Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions,
What about your story of the athlete who was low at some stupidly HIGH bg reading? YMMV and so does mine (and apparently Mike’s too). but mike’s labeled himself a psychopathic liar, so I guess it doesn’t count. (I will admit, as new to diabetes as the wo of you are,
I really love your patronizing but it’s all bollocks and we both know it. But tell me Dave, when do we newbies REALLY begin to understand? Is there a magic figure (like 22.754 years) when it all comes together, or do we only begin to get a grip after we barrel our cars into some innocent bystander like you did? You must have a big pair of balls to lecture accident free drivers on safety after doing what YOU did. If I were the licencing authority over there, I’d jerk your ticket faster than you could ever imagine. 30 years ago when BGs were a semi-annual test, I could "guess" my bg within 10mg/dl 95% of the time and within 20mg/dl 100% of the time, so he may be simply stretching the truth rather than deliberately lying.)
And now I think YOU’RE lying. But what do I know, I’ve only been diabetic for 5 minutes. Very seriously, even recognizing that your home meter is reporting you up to 12% lower than you "actually" are, at 50mg/dl (2.8mM/L) venous-plasma you are already into very severe neuroglycopenia and your brain is, essentially, severely impaired.
Who’s arguing? Not me. I told you I feel the symptoms and I treat them when I feel the NEED to treat them. If you have cites that show otherwise, I would like to see them.
You know me and cites, and there wouldn’t be much point giving one that agree with both of us in any case. At what level do you treat for hypo?
Depends on what I’m doing. If I’m sat here on my fat arse I’ll not do anything till I’ve hit 2, but if I’m out and about (or driving for example) I won’t drop below 5 before I stop the drop. But of course, after only 11 years I’m still a virgin and still learning what I’m capable of at various bg levels. Beav
Response:
Dave Groves writes:
<< … Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions … Dave, I think what Mike is saying is that he is not yet experiencing very good control. Newly-diagnosed people in this group have reported feeling hypo-y at 135! As we bring our b.g.’s down, the hypo threshhold falls too. Susie
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dejanews.com writes dejanews.com writes Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!! In any orchestra Dave, you’ll find a fiddle section. It’ll just get bigger I hope your right, but I believe you are wrong. I urge you to find out for sure. There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered. I HAD gathered Dave, it’s just your idea’s are a LOT out in left field! I have supported my ideas with cites from generally accepted, peer-reviewed scientific journals, Beav. Would you be kind enough to do the same? Not a chance! I told you I don’t read journals and reports just to build up a database of crappy claims which vary more wildly than the weather on top of Mount Everest.
Would you be so kind as to turn in your drivers license? You are a high risk to all of us who would like to retain ours. Hot flash, my brother, what YOU as an individual diabetic think about YOUR diabetes, is irrelevant in a courtroom where YOU are charged with homicide and given what you’ve posted here, with 11 years of diabetes under your belt, you are precisely why the UK is reconsidering licensing diabetics. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong, I am, and they may well NOT be but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms. I DO get symptoms, very CLEAR symptoms and the first one’s usually hit an hour or so before I run into problems concentrating, but they don’t happen until I’m well below 3mm/l. That scares me, Beavis. For one thing, it sounds disingenuous. At what level do you get "very CLEAR" symptoms? Around the 2.5mm/l mark, depending on what I’m doing.
2.5 on a home meter is 2.8 lab venous plasma. By the time you are getting such symptoms, according to all medical evidence I can find, you’ve been incapable of driving for quite a while and will lose your license, ok? Note that I am NOT saying they are right, not even saying you already suffer from HGU, but it is pretty obvious you do. Mike lies a lot and says he gets symptoms at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L). That’s wild since it isn’t even mildly pre-hypo by anyone’s definitions, but mike’s labeled himself a psychopathic liar, so I guess it doesn’t count. (I will admit, as new to diabetes as the two of you are, 30 years ago when BGs were a semi-annual test, I could "guess" my bg within 10mg/dl 95% of the time and within 20mg/dl 100% of the time, so he may be simply stretching the truth rather than deliberately lying.) Very seriously, even recognizing that your home meter is reporting you up to 12% lower than you "actually" are, at 50mg/dl (2.8mM/L) venous-plasma you are already into very severe neuroglycopenia and your brain is, essentially, severely impaired. If you have cites that show otherwise, I would like to see them. At what level do you treat for hypo? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to take the risk of assuming that I can be blunt. Go on then, be a devil:-) Regardless of how diabetes affects you personally, if we as diabetics and as extreme as our opinions are, cannot agree and work to form a community, if we cannot communicate clearly amongst ourselves, how in G*d’s name can we expect our "experts" and the courts to begin to comprehend us? Well on the MAJOR issue (that of not knocking animal insulins in the head) I’m in TOTAL agreement with you, and was before I ever read a word you’ve written, but the WAY you go about gaining support for this (by slapping the "opposition") isn’t the best way INHO. Thank you. You’re welcome Beav
I remain VERY concerned about you, Beav. If mike gets non-hypo feelings which alert him to take corrective action before driving at 85mg/dl (4.7mM/L) (home meter numbers, 95mg/dl or 5.3mM/L lab venous plasma) he’s ok to drive. At a 5mg/dl (0.28mM/L) per minute drop (pretty damned fast but not abnormal) according to most studies, you’ve been unsafe to drive for 2-3 minutes before you’ve gotten your first symptoms!! Dave Groves
Response:
dejanews.com writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Beav, you need to explain the difference between lorries for hire and the other stuff, though I doubt it will make an impression. I doubt it’ll make any impression too! Beav Beav? The difference between driving commercially and privately is quite different.
As a past HGV/PSV EXAMINER, I rather think I know that. Beav
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Beav, you need to explain the difference between lorries for hire and the other stuff, though I doubt it will make an impression. I doubt it’ll make any impression too! Beav
Beav? The difference between driving commercially and privately is quite different. Anyhow, fwiw http://www.traders.co.uk/insulintrust/ may be of some interest as may http://compassionateuse.com Dave Groves
Response:
dejanews.com writes – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dejanews.com writes Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!! In any orchestra Dave, you’ll find a fiddle section. It’ll just get bigger I hope your right, but I believe you are wrong. I urge you to find out for sure. There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered. I HAD gathered Dave, it’s just your idea’s are a LOT out in left field! I have supported my ideas with cites from generally accepted, peer-reviewed scientific journals, Beav. Would you be kind enough to do the same?
Not a chance! I told you I don’t read journals and reports just to build up a database of crappy claims which vary more wildly than the weather on top of Mount Everest. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong, I am, and they may well NOT be but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms. I DO get symptoms, very CLEAR symptoms and the first one’s usually hit an hour or so before I run into problems concentrating, but they don’t happen until I’m well below 3mm/l. That scares me, Beavis. For one thing, it sounds disingenuous. At what level do you get "very CLEAR" symptoms?
Around the 2.5mm/l mark, depending on what I’m doing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am going to take the risk of assuming that I can be blunt. Go on then, be a devil:-) Regardless of how diabetes affects you personally, if we as diabetics and as extreme as our opinions are, cannot agree and work to form a community, if we cannot communicate clearly amongst ourselves, how in G*d’s name can we expect our "experts" and the courts to begin to comprehend us? Well on the MAJOR issue (that of not knocking animal insulins in the head) I’m in TOTAL agreement with you, and was before I ever read a word you’ve written, but the WAY you go about gaining support for this (by slapping the "opposition") isn’t the best way INHO. Thank you.
You’re welcome Beav
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dejanews.com writes Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!! In any orchestra Dave, you’ll find a fiddle section. It’ll just get bigger
I hope your right, but I believe you are wrong. I urge you to find out for sure. There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered. I HAD gathered Dave, it’s just your idea’s are a LOT out in left field!
I have supported my ideas with cites from generally accepted, peer-reviewed scientific journals, Beav. Would you be kind enough to do the same? You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong, I am, and they may well NOT be but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms. I DO get symptoms, very CLEAR symptoms and the first one’s usually hit an hour or so before I run into problems concentrating, but they don’t happen until I’m well below 3mm/l.
That scares me, Beavis. For one thing, it sounds disingenuous. At what level do you get "very CLEAR" symptoms? I am going to take the risk of assuming that I can be blunt. Go on then, be a devil:-) Regardless of how diabetes affects you personally, if we as diabetics and as extreme as our opinions are, cannot agree and work to form a community, if we cannot communicate clearly amongst ourselves, how in G*d’s name can we expect our "experts" and the courts to begin to comprehend us? Well on the MAJOR issue (that of not knocking animal insulins in the head) I’m in TOTAL agreement with you, and was before I ever read a word you’ve written, but the WAY you go about gaining support for this (by slapping the "opposition") isn’t the best way INHO.
Thank you. Dave Groves Beav
Response:
Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Beav, you need to explain the difference between lorries for hire and the other stuff, though I doubt it will make an impression.
I doubt it’ll make any impression too! Beav
Response:
Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics.
Beav, you need to explain the difference between lorries for hire and the other stuff, though I doubt it will make an impression. regards m
Response:
dejanews.com writes Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!!
In any orchestra Dave, you’ll find a fiddle section. It’ll just get bigger There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered.
I HAD gathered Dave, it’s just your idea’s are a LOT out in left field! You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong,
I am, and they may well NOT be but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms.
I DO get symptoms, very CLEAR symptoms and the first one’s usually hit an hour or so before I run into problems concentrating, but they don’t happen until I’m well below 3mm/l. I am going to take the risk of assuming that I can be blunt.
Go on then, be a devil:-) Regardless of how diabetes affects you personally, if we as diabetics and as extreme as our opinions are, cannot agree and work to form a community, if we cannot communicate clearly amongst ourselves, how in G*d’s name can we expect our "experts" and the courts to begin to comprehend us?
Well on the MAJOR issue (that of not knocking animal insulins in the head) I’m in TOTAL agreement with you, and was before I ever read a word you’ve written, but the WAY you go about gaining support for this (by slapping the "opposition") isn’t the best way INHO. Beav
Response:
Well, my friend, I suggest you contact the Insulin Dependent Diabetics Trust, Ms. Jenny Hirst, because from what I am hearing, things have become SO bad in the UK that your licensing group is considering requiring and using an annual A1c and "stringent medical examination" to "prove" that a diabetic hasn’t been hypoglycemic in the prior year on *annual* renewals to be required for diabetics. Now the absolute ludicrousness of using a proxy 60-90 day moving average like an A1c to establish the lowest level a person’s has been in that period is bad enough (read statistically impossible). Adding insult to injury by setting that level higher than goals you can achieve easily without hypo problems amounts to making you chose between driving and avoiding complications at whatever the earliest driving age is in the UK and every year thereafter or defrauding the Crown by boosting your A1c deliberately before the annual test dates. I am not sure how your insuror would feel about that if you had an accident, but I am quite sure that were it fatal and hypoglycemia involved, such would NOT sit well with your sentencing judge!! There is a potentially worse problem though. Maybe they will do what our FAA did with flying certificates. Require an A1c so low (4.1-6.1%) that no insulin using diabetic in his/her right mind would go for it and thereby eliminate diabetic driving without passing obviously discriminatory legislation. Beav, I am concerned, in case you haven’t gathered. You may well be fine and my sources may be totally wrong, but I am translating your no symptoms=no hypo as a true equality which means no hypo=no symptoms, and I have paid far to much to learn the falsity of that. I hit a car at 65mph+ with no skid marks because I got no symptoms. I am going to take the risk of assuming that I can be blunt. Regardless of how diabetes affects you personally, if we as diabetics and as extreme as our opinions are, cannot agree and work to form a community, if we cannot communicate clearly amongst ourselves, how in G*d’s name can we expect our "experts" and the courts to begin to comprehend us? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – dejanews.com writes dejanews.com writes Beav, This is the status as of July 6, 1998 and it is consistant with the 1993 Diabetes article regarding increasing European restrictions previously cited please remember that Novo was a bit late in forcing Europe to human insulin and had to start with the more expensive pork to human conversion before they perfected a means to make human from yeast. Lilly started pushing E. Coli Humulin
Categories: Dyslexia Symptoms | 
No Comments »
) 
Hard to know what to do next. Wilks. Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.