Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip okay why not try searching for what dyslexia is? try this link. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=what+is+dyslexia&spell=1 is a quick google search, should cover most bases. i really think before useing words such as "cureable" you really should read up on the subject, to be frank in the words of the geeks RTFM. As a geek I fell that I have to point out that it would be STFW in this instance. Of course, if you don’t know what that meen you will just have to STFW

LOL yes indeed, i hadn’t attually heard that one or at least not rembered it i find abrevations hard to rember, though pardoxicly i use IRC which some tends to have quite a lot, of abervations. such is life i guess. Roger

Response:

[ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ]

    It’s easier to tell exactly what you’re replying to with bottom posting. A preference for bottom or top posting varies from group to group, although currently bottom posting is in vogue. I think it was the other way around in the past though.     I don’t know why you’re being lectured though. I know some of the people posting here have enough problems just putting the words down, and I don’t see any reason to try to impose certain rules to make it more difficult for them.   The quoted definition (below) is characterised by vagueness and generality.   "Dyslexia is BEST described as a COMBINATION of….etc" which adds little to meaning.   However, taking the word etymologically: "dys-" means the reverse of easy (ie hard); and "-lexia" ie. "phrase, word" – from "speak".

    Of course, like many words, the whole is more than the sum of all parts.   I assume we mean more the written, than spoken, word.  Do dyslexics have real trouble with speech, or mostly with reading and writing?

    No. There is no evidence that dyslexia effects speech. If they don’t jumble words in speech, then why so when reading a page of text – unless never taught to go from top left to bottom right, or, if taught it, are incapable of following such rule?

    Because their brains process that information differently than non-dyslexic brains do.   I’d allege that a "consistent" dyslexic would have to have difficulties in both areas – if not, why not?

    Because that isn’t how the brain works. Going back to the historical information on word blindness I gave you, in one instance there was a patient who was unable to read after experiencing a head trauma. But this same person was still able to write.   Does a dyslexic have a truly malfunctioning brain, or merely a lazy one?

    Since I’m able to read Shakespeare’s first folio in its original raw form with non-standard spellings and letter substitutions, and I’m able to read originals by Milton and Chaucer just as well, and understand just about all of it, I’d say we’d have to go with malfunctioning. I don’t think that there’s any greater feat I could accomplish in the realm of reading English.

Response:

To respond to comments below – 1) Here we are starting to analyse symptoms into some kind of distinct factors, each of which might have different causes. 2) Even such a seemingly "obvious" factor in writing (or reading) from left to right (c-a-t spells "cat") may not be at all obvious – unless you are actually taught it! 3) Also, when I was at school, we did "transcription", ie copying letters, with B,b and P,p grouped, to avoid confusion which may arise with these similar lower-case script characters – to the non-discriminating eye. 4) All language consists of verbal constructs which have three aspects – concept, text, and sound – and it is important that the three be emphasised and taught if a full understanding of any word, or letter, is to be grasped. 5) I’d claim that, unless a person has an actual brain or motor physical disorder, their alleged symptom is thus psychological and should be curable. 6) There are all sorts of frauds perpetrated on the public, consciously or unconsciously, and a cynic might suspect that "dyslexia" is one of them. Bad teaching methods can be fertile ground for "remedial teaching, psychologists, thesis experts, and even disadvantaged students" all of whom can profit by it. 7) Does dyslexia occur in foreign nations, or is it mainly or only a mental disorder of English-speaking countries? It is claimed that some English-speaking people, who are otherwise dyslexic, can better learn a foreign language.  Why is this so?  Is a different teaching method the reason?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ?     It’s a learning disability that effects a person’s ability to read (dyslexic symptoms), ability to write (dysgraphic symptoms), sense of left and right, ability to work with ordered lists (this might be disputed), short term memory (definitely disputed), and in a some instances difficulties with simple mathematics (discalcu symptoms). The actual symptoms and their severity differ from person to person.     It’s important to note that the actual problems are caused by the brain’s inability to properly process information. For instance, words can get jumbled on the page. When a dyslexic reads, the letters of a word can appear in a different order to them than what it on the page. You can see how this can create problems with reading.

Response:

Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ?

    It’s a learning disability that effects a person’s ability to read (dyslexic symptoms), ability to write (dysgraphic symptoms), sense of left and right, ability to work with ordered lists (this might be disputed), short term memory (definitely disputed), and in a some instances difficulties with simple mathematics (discalcu symptoms). The actual symptoms and their severity differ from person to person.     It’s important to note that the actual problems are caused by the brain’s inability to properly process information. For instance, words can get jumbled on the page. When a dyslexic reads, the letters of a word can appear in a different order to them than what it on the page. You can see how this can create problems with reading.

Response:

OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Dyslexia is "a severe problem with learning how to read", then this could be a result of – yes that is close to the latic definision ( word blindness) and the sterotype yes, but dyslexica is more than that, in that the symtoms of dyslexica incudes more than reading, infact you can be dyslexic even if your reading comprehenchion is fine… (1) The method of teaching; (2) The teacher; (3) The student: (a) psychological, or (b) physiological. It seems necessary to analyse each of these possibilities and clearly distinguish between them. If most children in a school have no trouble learning how to read, then it would seem that neither the teaching method, nor the teachers, nor the children, is at fault.  But if there is a residual number of children who have great difficulty, then some psychological or physical/congenital abnormality would appear to be present.  Only in such cases would the label "dyslexic" seem warranted. What is the cause(s), and how can it be remedied? A study into the background of each such child would help in finding possible common factors, including socio-economic, family structure and habits, hereditary. applying satstics to individual classes in a primary school is way too small a number for satstics to be useful, as a tool, for better or for worse there are tests for dyslexica which hopefully pick up the dyslexic child, though of course a child has to noticed, not nessarly a easy task given that children often devop at very differnat speeds. remedied well the dyslexic needs a training in their weaknesses so that they can make up some of the short fall, but no matter how much training they are still dyslexic and thus have problems in areas. ie a cure there isn’t but it can be combated. Roger

Response:

Perhaps the rise of literacy is to blame, for in ancient Egypt twas only the scribes could read, old Rameses hadn’t a clue what them heiroglyphs extolling his virtues meant, they could have been calling him a fat bald A* hole for all he knew. Different brains have been around as long as there have been humans, but dyslexia only came into being when its time had come. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – If Dyslexia is "a severe problem with learning how to read", then this could be a result of – (1) The method of teaching; (2) The teacher; (3) The student: (a) psychological, or (b) physiological. It seems necessary to analyse each of these possibilities and clearly distinguish between them. If most children in a school have no trouble learning how to read, then it would seem that neither the teaching method, nor the teachers, nor the children, is at fault.  But if there is a residual number of children who have great difficulty, then some psychological or physical/congenital abnormality would appear to be present.  Only in such cases would the label "dyslexic" seem warranted. What is the cause(s), and how can it be remedied? A study into the background of each such child would help in finding possible common factors, including socio-economic, family structure and habits, hereditary.

Response:

Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.     Dyslexia is not (remember the not, very important because it seems to be what you’re missing) defined by an inability to read. You’ve confused a symptom with the underlying problem. Some dyslexics can’t read too well. Others can read just fine. Not being able to read is illiteracy, not dyslexia. The fact that most of this NG is dyslexic proves that reading is possible.     If a dyslexic is able to read, then they’ve been able to compensate for the symptoms that made reading difficult in the first place, they have not been cured and the problems still exist.     It’s clear that you’ve come up with some theories on how dyslexia should be dealt with without understanding dyslexia in the slightest.

Response:

[ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ]   The quoted definition (below) is characterised by vagueness and generality.   "Dyslexia is BEST described as a COMBINATION of….etc" which adds little to meaning.   However, taking the word etymologically: "dys-" means the reverse of easy (ie hard); and "-lexia" ie. "phrase, word" – from "speak".   I assume we mean more the written, than spoken, word.  Do dyslexics have real trouble with speech, or mostly with reading and writing?  If they don’t jumble words in speech, then why so when reading a page of text – unless never taught to go from top left to bottom right, or, if taught it, are incapable of following such rule?   I’d allege that a "consistent" dyslexic would have to have difficulties in both areas – if not, why not?   Does a dyslexic have a truly malfunctioning brain, or merely a lazy one?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ? <snip Would you please post responses under the text you are responding to, like I am? This is called bottom posting and was the convention on Usenet from its inception. As to your question, a 30 search found this: http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/main/information/extras/x02stats.asp To quote from the site: 1. BDA definition of dyslexia. "Dyslexia is best described as a combination of abilities and difficulties that affect the learning process in one or more of reading, spelling, writing. Accompanying weaknesses may be identified in areas of speed of processing, short-term memory, sequencing and organisation, auditory and/or visual perception, spoken language and motor skills. It is particularly related to mastering and using written language, which may include alphabetic, numeric and musical notation. Some dyslexics have outstanding creative skills. Others have strong oral skills. Some have no outstanding talents. They all have strengths. Dyslexia can occur despite normal intellectual ability and teaching. It is independent of socio-economic or language background."(The Dyslexia Handbook 2002, p67.) You will also find links to lots of other useful sites for research on that page. — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

Response:

OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.

snips due to top posting…. okay why not try searching for what dyslexia is? try this link. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=what+is+dyslexia&spell=1 is a quick google search, should cover most bases. i really think before useing words such as "cureable" you really should read up on the subject, to be frank in the words of the geeks RTFM. Roger

Response:

<snip okay why not try searching for what dyslexia is? try this link. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=what+is+dyslexia&spell=1 is a quick google search, should cover most bases. i really think before useing words such as "cureable" you really should read up on the subject, to be frank in the words of the geeks RTFM.

As a geek I fell that I have to point out that it would be STFW in this instance. Of course, if you don’t know what that meen you will just have to STFW — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

Response:

If Dyslexia is "a severe problem with learning how to read", then this could be a result of – (1) The method of teaching; (2) The teacher; (3) The student: (a) psychological, or (b) physiological. It seems necessary to analyse each of these possibilities and clearly distinguish between them. If most children in a school have no trouble learning how to read, then it would seem that neither the teaching method, nor the teachers, nor the children, is at fault.  But if there is a residual number of children who have great difficulty, then some psychological or physical/congenital abnormality would appear to be present.  Only in such cases would the label "dyslexic" seem warranted. What is the cause(s), and how can it be remedied? A study into the background of each such child would help in finding possible common factors, including socio-economic, family structure and habits, hereditary.

Response:

Definatly not what Ted Rosenburg says and thinks it is No if it were solely reading it would not have any real existance in non literate societies, yet whatever gives rise to it, must always have been there, and only became relevant in a more demanding society. ergo it is social. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ? OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.     Dyslexia is not (remember the not, very important because it seems to be what you’re missing) defined by an inability to read. You’ve confused a symptom with the underlying problem. Some dyslexics can’t read too well. Others can read just fine. Not being able to read is illiteracy, not dyslexia. The fact that most of this NG is dyslexic proves that reading is possible.     If a dyslexic is able to read, then they’ve been able to compensate for the symptoms that made reading difficult in the first place, they have not been cured and the problems still exist.     It’s clear that you’ve come up with some theories on how dyslexia should be dealt with without understanding dyslexia in the slightest.

Response:

To respond to comments below – 1) Here we are starting to analyse symptoms into some kind of distinct factors, each of which might have different causes.

    But the symptoms themselves are largely related. Dyslexics generally suffer from several in variable degrees.     Take for instance tying your shoes. We can agree that tying your shoes is about as far removed from reading as one can get, and the method, or lack of literacy, that were used to teach you reading have nothing to do with shoe tying.     Yet a lot of dyslexic children have difficulties learning to tie their shoes. It’s one of the warning signs of dyslexia. 2) Even such a seemingly "obvious" factor in writing (or reading) from left to right (c-a-t spells "cat") may not be at all obvious – unless you are actually taught it!

    The problem is when a dyslexic looks at a word, it may not appear the same way a non-dyslexic would see it. 3) Also, when I was at school, we did "transcription", ie copying letters, with B,b and P,p grouped, to avoid confusion which may arise with these similar lower-case script characters – to the non-discriminating eye.

    Dyslexia is not caused by a problem with distinguishing letters. I can vouch for that much. 5) I’d claim that, unless a person has an actual brain or motor physical disorder, their alleged symptom is thus psychological and should be curable. 6) There are all sorts of frauds perpetrated on the public, consciously or unconsciously, and a cynic might suspect that "dyslexia" is one of them. Bad teaching methods can be fertile ground for "remedial teaching, psychologists, thesis experts, and even disadvantaged students" all of whom can profit by it.

    The problem with this theory is there are a lot of people who would like to have dyslexia dissappear. What is probably the most common problem in this group is parents who are trying to get their children properly diagnosed by school district standards. The schools don’t want to have to pay out extra money to teach dyslexics properly, and they’re notorious for misdiagnosing students.     There are, however, ways to make money off dyslexia. They usually involve your word, cure. There are enough parents of dyslexic children out there who would be willing to shell out a lot of money if they are led to believe someone may be offering a potential cure for their children. These cures are pretty much bogus without any scientific backing, and improvements that do happen are usually due to following tried and true methods in addition to the supposed cure. 7) Does dyslexia occur in foreign nations, or is it mainly or only a mental disorder of English-speaking countries?

    I’d be particularly interested in any information about dyslexia and forgien languages. I’m curious what the effect would be with languages that have different alphabets (Russian and Japanese for instance) or whole word letters (like Mandrin). It is claimed that some English-speaking people, who are otherwise dyslexic, can better learn a foreign language.  Why is this so?  Is a different teaching method the reason?

    I’ve never heard of this, and find it very difficult to learn a foreign language.

Response:

Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ?

<snip Would you please post responses under the text you are responding to, like I am? This is called bottom posting and was the convention on Usenet from its inception. As to your question, a 30 search found this: http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/main/information/extras/x02stats.asp To quote from the site: 1. BDA definition of dyslexia. "Dyslexia is best described as a combination of abilities and difficulties that affect the learning process in one or more of reading, spelling, writing. Accompanying weaknesses may be identified in areas of speed of processing, short-term memory, sequencing and organisation, auditory and/or visual perception, spoken language and motor skills. It is particularly related to mastering and using written language, which may include alphabetic, numeric and musical notation. Some dyslexics have outstanding creative skills. Others have strong oral skills. Some have no outstanding talents. They all have strengths. Dyslexia can occur despite normal intellectual ability and teaching. It is independent of socio-economic or language background."(The Dyslexia Handbook 2002, p67.)

You will also find links to lots of other useful sites for research on that page. — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

Response:

How were you taught English at school – by Phonics, or the Whole Word Method?  Someone taught by the latter, "guessing", method could take a life-time of undoing to correct.  I’m prepared to concede that a malady called ‘dyslexia’ does exist – but only when all possible causes of inability to read and write have been examined; even then it still has to be explained in terms of physical or psychological abnormality of some kind.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ] Because Microsoft tend to ignore standards. This site looks like it has a good discussion on the topic, including quoting the relevant RFC: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html A: Because it is harder to read Q: Why is top posting wrong? Or to put it another way, I have to keep scrolling up and down to see what the fsck is going on in your posts. BTW, I don’t complain about dyslexics top posting because this group is to support dyslexics, and complaining does not help.   The quoted definition (below) is characterised by vagueness and generality.   "Dyslexia is BEST described as a COMBINATION of….etc" which adds   little to meaning. Well, I suggest you tell the British Dyslexia Association (A major charity supporting Dyslexics in the UK) that they are not helpful. Of course, you could have checked out the links they provide (which I suggested might be helpful) and found on http://www.interdys.org/servlet/compose?section_id=5&page_id=95 a definition that might be more to your liking. I quote: |  Dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurological in |  origin. It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and / or    ^^^^^^ |  fluent word recognition and by poor spelling and decoding abilities. |  These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the |  phonological component of language that is often unexpected in |  relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective |  classroom instruction. Secondary consequences may include problems in |  reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede |  growth of vocabulary and background knowledge   However, taking the word etymologically: "dys-" means the reverse of   easy (ie hard); and "-lexia" ie. "phrase, word" – from "speak".   I assume we mean more the written, than spoken, word. Yes, it generally affects reading and writing rather than spoken language.  Do dyslexics have real trouble with speech, or mostly with reading  and writing?  If they don’t jumble words in speech, then why so when reading a page of text – unless never taught to go from top left to bottom right, or, if taught it, are incapable of following such rule? Well, in extreme cases there is not much understanding of the difference between left and write. It was certainly a concept which I had great difficulty with, although in my case learning to play a musical instrument helped.   I’d allege that a "consistent" dyslexic would have to have   difficulties in both areas – if not, why not? Because processing written language uses different portions of the brain. Even today (at 37) I have to internally convert the written word in to the spoken word and "listen" to myself internally vocalising in order to read. Something I am told that "normal" people do not have to do. Also, to write or type English I have to internally say what I am writing/typing.   Does a dyslexic have a truly malfunctioning brain, or merely a lazy   one? Well, since a lot of dyslexics have worked very hard to learn to read/write (in my case it is bad enough that my mind has completely blanked out that part of my life, but my mum tells me that it frequently led to tears of frustration) it is hard to think that it could be laziness. <snip I also suggest you do some basic research. There is evidence (brain scans) of dyslexics using different parts of the brain for processing the written word to "normal" people. — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

Response:

To respond to comments below – 1) Here we are starting to analyse symptoms into some kind of distinct factors, each of which might have different causes.

Not we, you are 2) Even such a seemingly "obvious" factor in writing (or reading) from left to right (c-a-t spells "cat") may not be at all obvious – unless you are actually taught it!

You forget the next step, converting the written word cat into the concept of a cat 3) Also, when I was at school, we did "transcription", ie copying letters, with B,b and P,p grouped, to avoid confusion which may arise with these similar lower-case script characters – to the non-discriminating eye.

see my other answer to you 4) All language consists of verbal constructs which have three aspects – concept, text, and sound – and it is important that the three be emphasised and taught if a full understanding of any word, or letter, is to be grasped.

Ok, but as the word cat does not have any resemblance to a picture of a cat it can be very difficult for some people. 5) I’d claim that, unless a person has an actual brain or motor physical disorder, their alleged symptom is thus psychological and should be curable.

This disorder is not greater as that of a person who thinks that reading from bottom to top is the best way 6) There are all sorts of frauds perpetrated on the public, consciously or unconsciously, and a cynic might suspect that "dyslexia" is one of them. Bad teaching methods can be fertile ground for "remedial teaching, psychologists, thesis experts, and even disadvantaged students" all of whom can profit by it.

That’s why a good diagnostic is essential 7) Does dyslexia occur in foreign nations, or is it mainly or only a mental disorder of English-speaking countries?

Yes, it’s slightly higher in English-speaking environments because English is less consistent in sound/writing relations It is claimed that some English-speaking people, who are otherwise dyslexic, can better learn a foreign language.  Why is this so?  Is a different teaching method the reason?

I doubt that very much, it would several years (say 20) to learn that second language first. — ViSiToR

Response:

If Dyslexia is "a severe problem with learning how to read", then this could be a result of –

yes that is close to the latic definision ( word blindness) and the sterotype yes, but dyslexica is more than that, in that the symtoms of dyslexica incudes more than reading, infact you can be dyslexic even if your reading comprehenchion is fine… (1) The method of teaching; (2) The teacher; (3) The student: (a) psychological, or (b) physiological. It seems necessary to analyse each of these possibilities and clearly distinguish between them. If most children in a school have no trouble learning how to read, then it would seem that neither the teaching method, nor the teachers, nor the children, is at fault.  But if there is a residual number of children who have great difficulty, then some psychological or physical/congenital abnormality would appear to be present.  Only in such cases would the label "dyslexic" seem warranted. What is the cause(s), and how can it be remedied? A study into the background of each such child would help in finding possible common factors, including socio-economic, family structure and habits, hereditary.

applying satstics to individual classes in a primary school is way too small a number for satstics to be useful, as a tool, for better or for worse there are tests for dyslexica which hopefully pick up the dyslexic child, though of course a child has to noticed, not nessarly a easy task given that children often devop at very differnat speeds. remedied well the dyslexic needs a training in their weaknesses so that they can make up some of the short fall, but no matter how much training they are still dyslexic and thus have problems in areas. ie a cure there isn’t but it can be combated. Roger

Response:

Oh yes and some of us are dyscalculic, not that some people recognise that with there narrow focus on reading as if that is the be all and end all.. Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.

Response:

How were you taught English at school – by Phonics, or the Whole Word Method?  Someone taught by the latter, "guessing", method could take a life-time of undoing to correct.  I’m prepared to concede that a malady called ‘dyslexia’ does exist – but only when all possible causes of inability to read and write have been examined; even then it still has to be explained in terms of physical or psychological abnormality of some kind.

Once again, This has all been studied, the answers are there, go and read in the right places. But first: Dyslexia is not a "malady", there is no physical or psychological "abnormality" and it has nothing to do with learning methods. Positively speaking it has to do with the extreme efforts a dyslectic person has to make in learning to read and write. It is a very selective disturbance in automating the skills that are needed for such. — ViSiToR

Response:

[ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ]

Because Microsoft tend to ignore standards. This site looks like it has a good discussion on the topic, including quoting the relevant RFC: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html A: Because it is harder to read Q: Why is top posting wrong? Or to put it another way, I have to keep scrolling up and down to see what the fsck is going on in your posts. BTW, I don’t complain about dyslexics top posting because this group is to support dyslexics, and complaining does not help.   The quoted definition (below) is characterised by vagueness and generality.   "Dyslexia is BEST described as a COMBINATION of….etc" which adds   little to meaning.

Well, I suggest you tell the British Dyslexia Association (A major charity supporting Dyslexics in the UK) that they are not helpful. Of course, you could have checked out the links they provide (which I suggested might be helpful) and found on http://www.interdys.org/servlet/compose?section_id=5&page_id=95 a definition that might be more to your liking. I quote: |  Dyslexia is a specific learning disability that is neurological in |  origin. It is characterized by difficulties with accurate and / or    ^^^^^^ |  fluent word recognition and by poor spelling and decoding abilities. |  These difficulties typically result from a deficit in the |  phonological component of language that is often unexpected in |  relation to other cognitive abilities and the provision of effective |  classroom instruction. Secondary consequences may include problems in |  reading comprehension and reduced reading experience that can impede |  growth of vocabulary and background knowledge   However, taking the word etymologically: "dys-" means the reverse of   easy (ie hard); and "-lexia" ie. "phrase, word" – from "speak".   I assume we mean more the written, than spoken, word.

Yes, it generally affects reading and writing rather than spoken language.  Do dyslexics have real trouble with speech, or mostly with reading  and writing?  If they don’t jumble words in speech, then why so when reading a page of text – unless never taught to go from top left to bottom right, or, if taught it, are incapable of following such rule?

Well, in extreme cases there is not much understanding of the difference between left and write. It was certainly a concept which I had great difficulty with, although in my case learning to play a musical instrument helped.   I’d allege that a "consistent" dyslexic would have to have   difficulties in both areas – if not, why not?

Because processing written language uses different portions of the brain. Even today (at 37) I have to internally convert the written word in to the spoken word and "listen" to myself internally vocalising in order to read. Something I am told that "normal" people do not have to do. Also, to write or type English I have to internally say what I am writing/typing.   Does a dyslexic have a truly malfunctioning brain, or merely a lazy   one?

Well, since a lot of dyslexics have worked very hard to learn to read/write (in my case it is bad enough that my mind has completely blanked out that part of my life, but my mum tells me that it frequently led to tears of frustration) it is hard to think that it could be laziness. <snip I also suggest you do some basic research. There is evidence (brain scans) of dyslexics using different parts of the brain for processing the written word to "normal" people. — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it.

Response:

I even speak in jumbled letters, lets here it for the rev Spooner shall we. As for language, you herd on the motor thery on language yet ? or cognitive linguistics, bin you a whorfian or no ? Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To respond to comments below – 1) Here we are starting to analyse symptoms into some kind of distinct factors, each of which might have different causes. 2) Even such a seemingly "obvious" factor in writing (or reading) from left to right (c-a-t spells "cat") may not be at all obvious – unless you are actually taught it! 3) Also, when I was at school, we did "transcription", ie copying letters, with B,b and P,p grouped, to avoid confusion which may arise with these similar lower-case script characters – to the non-discriminating eye. 4) All language consists of verbal constructs which have three aspects – concept, text, and sound – and it is important that the three be emphasised and taught if a full understanding of any word, or letter, is to be grasped. 5) I’d claim that, unless a person has an actual brain or motor physical disorder, their alleged symptom is thus psychological and should be curable. 6) There are all sorts of frauds perpetrated on the public, consciously or unconsciously, and a cynic might suspect that "dyslexia" is one of them. Bad teaching methods can be fertile ground for "remedial teaching, psychologists, thesis experts, and even disadvantaged students" all of whom can profit by it. 7) Does dyslexia occur in foreign nations, or is it mainly or only a mental disorder of English-speaking countries? It is claimed that some English-speaking people, who are otherwise dyslexic, can better learn a foreign language.  Why is this so?  Is a different teaching method the reason?

Response:

Well my STM is F*cked Larry

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ?     It’s a learning disability that effects a person’s ability to read (dyslexic symptoms), ability to write (dysgraphic symptoms), sense of left and right, ability to work with ordered lists (this might be disputed), short term memory (definitely disputed), and in a some instances difficulties with simple mathematics (discalcu symptoms). The actual symptoms and their severity differ from person to person.     It’s important to note that the actual problems are caused by the brain’s inability to properly process information. For instance, words can get jumbled on the page. When a dyslexic reads, the letters of a word can appear in a different order to them than what it on the page. You can see how this can create problems with reading.

Response:

Top Dog – or Lowly Cur? There’s long sight, and there’s myopia, But I suffer – dys-end-top-ia; Which means that I write topsy-turvy, And brands me as a knave, quite scurvy; Who won’t, or can’t, obey the rules, When I cast to swine, my mental pearls. ‘Cos posting requires an addendum, Not prefaced, but bottom-ending. Yet I prefer: prime post, with quotes, And past comments, as footnotes. To those demanding it end-after’d; All I say is – go, get shafted. DYSLEXIA, a difficulty in reading that is disproportionate relative to other intellectual abilities. It is considered to be a congenital disability in organizing, which affects short-term memory, hand skills, and perception, leading to difficulties with literary skills. It is typified by erratic spelling, often accompanied by letter reversals or word reversals. This indicates that one of the difficulties lies in imposing a consistent spatial orientation on written material. Other possible causes may lie in relating what words look like to how they sound. Recent research suggests that dyslexia is linked to a neurological abnormality that affects vision. There are about 2.5 million dyslexics in the UK.     – "Oxford Interactive Encyclopedia" DYSDOCTRINA – a misconception relating to teaching of the English language, whereby blame is shifted from the teaching method onto the child; result is: dyslexia.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – [ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ]

Response:

<Top-posting repaired – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Alright. I may be confusing dyslexia with illiteracy, but a definition would help at this stage: "Dyslexia is….." ? <snip Would you please post responses under the text you are responding to, like I am? This is called bottom posting and was the convention on Usenet from its inception. As to your question, a 30 search found this: http://www.bda-dyslexia.org.uk/main/information/extras/x02stats.asp To quote from the site: 1. BDA definition of dyslexia. "Dyslexia is best described as a combination of abilities and difficulties that affect the learning process in one or more of reading, spelling, writing. Accompanying weaknesses may be identified in areas of speed of processing, short-term memory, sequencing and organisation, auditory and/or visual perception, spoken language and motor skills. It is particularly related to mastering and using written language, which may include alphabetic, numeric and musical notation. Some dyslexics have outstanding creative skills. Others have strong oral skills. Some have no outstanding talents. They all have strengths. Dyslexia can occur despite normal intellectual ability and teaching. It is independent of socio-economic or language background."(The Dyslexia Handbook 2002, p67.) You will also find links to lots of other useful sites for research on that page. — Flash Gordon Sometimes I think shooting would be far too good for some people. Although my email address says spam, it is real and I read it. [ If "bottom posting" is the official norm, then why, when I click on "Reply Group", does the panel open with a line-space at top of page, and cursor in top-left position? ]

Choose the appropriate answer(s). a. You are not using a proper newsreader. b. You are not willing to comply to conventions. c. You are a troll. d. You read from bottom to top, most people don’t.   The quoted definition (below) is characterised by vagueness and generality.   "Dyslexia is BEST described as a COMBINATION of….etc" which adds little to meaning.   However, taking the word etymologically: "dys-" means the reverse of easy (ie hard); and "-lexia" ie. "phrase, word" – from "speak".   I assume we mean more the written, than spoken, word.  Do dyslexics have real trouble with speech, or mostly with reading and writing?  If they don’t jumble words in speech, then why so when reading a page of text – unless never taught to go from top left to bottom right, or, if taught it, are incapable of following such rule?   I’d allege that a "consistent" dyslexic would have to have difficulties in both areas – if not, why not?

This is a dyslexia support-group, not a group where you can learn all about dyslexia. These questions are off-topic here.   Does a dyslexic have a truly malfunctioning brain, or merely a lazy one?

They have a different, much better brain. — ViSiToR

Response:

OK. Look at it from the opposite angle – what are the symptoms of dyslexia, graded according to severity: (1) inability to read, at all; (2) difficulty with reading, but can read somewhat; (3) some difficulty with letters, or words, in some cases. Once these are detailed, then tackling the cause(s) gets more specific and possibly curable.

    Dyslexia is not (remember the not, very important because it seems to be what you’re missing) defined by an inability to read. You’ve confused a symptom with the underlying problem. Some dyslexics can’t read too well. Others can read just fine. Not being able to read is illiteracy, not dyslexia. The fact that most of this NG is dyslexic proves that reading is possible.     If a dyslexic is able to read, then they’ve been able to compensate for the symptoms that made reading difficult in the first place, they have not been cured and the problems still exist.     It’s clear that you’ve come up with some theories on how dyslexia should be dealt with without understanding dyslexia in the slightest.

Response:

Question:

What is "Dysgraphia"?

Dysgraphia is difficulty in learning to write. It’s different from having problems with spelling.  Someone with severe dysgraphia may be able to spell a word orally, but when he attempts to write it, he mis-forms the letters or writes the wrong letters. Stowe Davison (ess double-u davison at erols dot com)

Response:

My  10 year old son was just diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Does anyone know where I can get information.  I know this isn’t directly on topic, but  I would appreciate your help very much . Greg Bester

Response:

My  10 year old son was just diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Does anyone know where I can get information.  I know this isn’t directly on topic, but  I would appreciate your help very much .

You might try asking the Orton Dyslexia Society for advice.  They have a web site but I’m afraid I cannot remember what the URL is. —                        |   To reply, please remove: REMOVE_THIS_. "If we don’t succeed, then we run the risk of failure." – Vice President Dan Quayle, Texas Republican Convention, 1989.

Response:

My  10 year old son was just diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Does anyone know where I can get information.  I know this isn’t directly on topic, but  I would appreciate your help very much . You might try asking the Orton Dyslexia Society for advice.  They have a web site but I’m afraid I cannot remember what the URL is.

The Orton Dyslexia Society recently changed its name to The International Dyslexia Association.  Their URL is: http://www.interdys.org I agree with Will — The IDA would be a good place to start.  They have a pretty active bulletin board, and they’re a nonprofit research and support outfit not associated with any commercial remediation company. (Although they accept sponsorship from at least one company that sells scanning/reading software.) As Frank said, dysgraphia is very much on topic in this NG.  It’s usually thought of as a part of dyslexia. Please check out the IDA, and keep reading this NG.  If you find a good information source more specifically about dysgraphia, please share it with us — and anything else you discover! Stowe Davison (email   —  ess double-u davison at erols dot com — fleeing  spam)

Response:

You might try asking the Orton Dyslexia Society for

advice.  They have a Ehat is "Dysgraphia"?

Response:

What is "Dysgraphia"? Dysgraphia is difficulty in learning to write. It’s different from having problems with spelling.  Someone with severe dysgraphia may be able to spell a word orally, but when he attempts to write it, he mis-forms the letters or writes the wrong letters. Stowe Davison (ess double-u davison at erols dot com)

Precisely. In that sense, you could call it "reverse dyslexia." The student may be able to read (pick up letters and words from a piece of paper and process them). But when it comes to mentally picturing them and transferring them onto a piece of paper, there is a coordination or copying problem.  

Response:

I am taking a class on learning disabilities. I have to do a presentation on dysgraphia. If you have a child who has been diagnosed with this, please let me know when they were diagnosed, who first noticed the problem and what service your son or daughter is receiving. Thanks

    I don’t know if this’ll help any, but I have really bad dysgraphia, and no children. I was only diagnosed a few years ago, I can’t remember just when. Maybe four years ago, about the same time I was diagnosed with dyslexia. Through out school my teachers noticed I had serious problems with writing, along with complaining about other symptoms of dyslexia. Only one suspected dyslexia, and she failed to follow through with it.     As for what services I’ve received, before getting my computer I spent anywhere from one to ten hours a day writing things out by hand on notebook paper. And after a few years I started to see some real improvement, where my writing was at least able to be read by other people. After I got a computer, I pretty much gave up on writing by hand entirely, and my handwriting has regressed a bit since then. But I can type really well and fast now. The computer makes life so much easier.

Response:

I am taking a class on learning disabilities. I have to do a presentation on dysgraphia. If you have a child who has been diagnosed with this, please let me know when they were diagnosed, who first noticed the problem and what service your son or daughter is receiving. Thanks

Response:

^ My  10 year old son was just diagnosed with dysgraphia.  Does anyone know ^ where I can get information.  I know this isn’t directly on topic, but  I ^ would appreciate your help very much . It is very on topic. I’m sorry, I don’t know the answer to your question, but I wanted to ask you why you came to a dyslexia newsgroup for information on dysgraphia. Was your son diagnosed with dyslexia, of which the major problem he has is dysgraphia? If he was diagnosed as having only dysgraphia, not dyslexia, then I recommend you familiarize yourself with the other symptoms of dyslexia. You can find links to information on dyslexia, and possibly dysgraphia, on our website at <http://www.imagepublishing.net/dyslexia/. Frank — Visit the alt.support.dyslexia web site at: http://www.imagepublishing.net/dyslexia/

Response:

Question:

Hi Raymond, This group has really gone quiet but I guess it’s the calm down time after the storm, hahaha.  I hope that more people join up and that we can make this the best support group out there.  I belong to quite a few message boards for children with learning difficulties, dyslexia, homeschooling etc. but I really like this one because it is the only one that has members from all over the world.  Most of the others are just U.S. and Canada.  I wish I could hear Fiona’s accent right now, hahaha.  I love the Australian accents. I could listen to them speak for hours.  Irish and Scottish to. There really is a lack of understanding about dyslexia out there.  I have a cousin who is almost 50 and I’m sure that because of all of the stress and lack of success he had all of his life, it has affected him mentally with depression.  By the time he was in high school, he was trying to commit suicide which put him in the mental health sector of treatment and the wheels just kept on going round and round.  I really feel that if his dyslexia was diagnosed (which I believe is the root problem), maybe he would have had more success and life would have been different for him.  Who knows.  From the stories that I’ve heard, people put so much pressure on him, considering him lazy and the list goes on. Someone posted an article on one of the message boards just today about a study that had been done in England if I’m not mistaken.  I’ll post it at the end of this message.  I use my poor little guy as a guinea pig,  I try all different kinds of things and then see how he processes it.  I really believe the studies that say dyslexics use a different part of the brain which is less effective for language.  That’s one of the reasons I find tapping so affective.  They say that most people use the left hemisphere to process language, be it oral or written.  A dyslexic uses the right hemisphere.  Now we all know that the left hemisphere controls the right part of our body and vice versa.  If I have him tap out a word with his right hand, he will automatically use the left side of his brain.  Tapping the word also helps him segment the sounds.  I’m not a scientist but this is the impression I get when I watch my son learn.  The tapping definitely helped so if I put it together with other studies that I’ve read, it would make sense. People with expressive and receptive language problems are no where near retarded.  I have our son’s evaluations to prove that. Hey Raymond, I haven’t spoken to you for awhile so I haven’t told you the good news.  We’ve started the testing stages with the SLP and the results have been blowing everyone away.  I haven’t got all of the numbers in yet because we’ve just started but here’s what I’ve got so far. Sentence structure he went from a 5 (June 2003) to an 8 (May 2004) Word classes he went from a 9 to a 13 Concepts and directions he went from a 4 to an 8 I’ll explain these a bit so that they make sense.  They break language up into different expressive and receptive categories.  Any score from a 7 to 13 would be classified as normal.  His SLP explained that most of the time, even if there was improvement, the scores would be the same or lower because the child is a year older and more is expected from them.  These results prove a lot.  If language difficulties meant retarded, we would never see this kind of improvement. Well Raymond, I really hope that Dominic grows up to be as ambitious as you are.  Just by reading your posts, you would never know that you have dyslexia.  I know that just hearing your story and your successes because of the early intervention helps gives me the strength and conviction that what we are doing is the right thing.  Mainstreaming all of the children (dyslexics, autistic, retarded) is what they do here and the services like you received just don’t exist.  Homeschooling seemed to be our only option and believe me, not a popular one.  Hearing that being understood and loved for who you are, multisensory programs and special attention was the reason for your success proves to me that we are on the right track.  Thank you Well, I’m off.  Poor Dominic has a cold today and is sleeping.  I’ll go and check up on him and then get some lunch on the table. Take care Kathy Words in the Brain: Reading Program Spurs Neural Rewrite In Kids       [By Bruce Bower for Science News Online. Week of May 8, 2004; Vol. 165, No. 19.] http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040508/fob1.asp       A new brain-imaging study indicates that a specially designed program for second and third graders deficient in reading boosts their reading skills while prodding their brains to respond to written material in the same way that the brains of good readers do. The same investigation found that the remedial instruction typically offered to poor readers in the nation’s schools doesn’t improve their skills and fails to ignite activity in brain areas that have been linked to effective reading.       Good teaching can change the brain in a way that has the potential to benefit struggling readers, says pediatrician Sally Shaywitz of Yale University School of Medicine.       At least one in five U.S. grade-schoolers with average or above-average intelligence encounters severe difficulties in learning to read, researchers estimate. In 2000, a panel of educators and scientists convened by Congress concluded that reading disability stems primarily from difficulties in recognizing the correspondence between speech sounds and letters.       Panel member Sally Shaywitz, along with Bennett A. Shaywitz, a neurologist also at Yale medical school, and their colleagues used that finding to design a brain-imaging investigation.       At the beginning and end of the school year, the investigators administered reading tests and functional magnetic resonance imaging scans to three groups of children, ages 6 to 9, attending school in New York or Connecticut. The brain scans were taken as each volunteer tried to identify written letters that matched spoken letters.       In one of the groups, 37 underachieving readers were given experimental tutoring that consisted of 50 minutes of daily, individual instruction in letters and combinations of letters that represent speech sounds called phonemes. The lessons also focused on development of fluency in reading words, oral reading of stories, and spelling.       Another 12 deficient readers received standard remedial reading and special education programs in their schools. These students didn’t receive explicit instruction in learning to recognize how letters correspond to phonemes.       A third group, this one consisting of 28 good readers, received regular classroom instruction.       At the end of the school year, only poor readers in the experimental program showed marked gains in reading accuracy, speed, and comprehension, the researchers report in the May 1 Biological Psychiatry. Good readers still exhibited the strongest literacy, but the poor readers who received phonetically based instruction had closed the gap considerably.       After poor readers completed the experimental program, their brains displayed pronounced activity in several of the same left-brain areas that are active when good readers do reading-related tasks. In an earlier study of poor readers, Sally Shaywitz and Bennett Shaywitz found that one of those neural regions remains inactive as these kids grow up. Preliminary evidence from other researchers indicates that this structure, located near the back of the brain, fosters immediate recognition of familiar written words and is thus crucial for fluent reading, Sally Shaywitz says.       Students who had completed the experimental tutoring program still displayed improved reading scores and associated left-brain activation when measured 1 year later.       Bruce D. McCandliss, a neuroscientist at Weill Medical College of Cornell University in New York City, calls the new report a landmark study. It builds upon similar findings by other research teams that tracked much smaller numbers of poor readers given phonological instruction, he notes.       The Yale group now plans to study children who will be randomly assigned to different types of reading programs.

Response:

You’re right.  Dyslexia is a language based difficulty.  I haven’t met anyone that stutters because of their dyslexia but I’m sure that it could happen and is caused by it.  Our son has difficulty with words so when he’s speaking, there are some pauses in his sentences while he’s searching for the word or he’ll make life easier for himself by just speaking in phrases. That is fantastic about the engineering job.  My husband is also dyslexic and there are some things that he does so much better than anyone else.  It just comes naturally to him.  He’s not an engineer but a trucker transporting heavy machinery.  That has always been his passion.  I’m glad that he finally started working in that field because he would have the excavation companies here every summer doing work just to have the machines in the yard.  Now that he works in the field, I finally have grass, hahaha. Take care Kathy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, I don’t have time for a full reply, but just for the record one can be both dyslexic and have a speech problem. I know, I have. Re intelligence, before I gave up work to go to university, I was one of my last employers top engineers, (a multi-national). But I do agree that if people see you stutter they think something must be wrong. My biased opinion is, it is them. — Javron Go Placidly Amid The Noise & Haste, & Remember What Peace There May Be In Silence. Hi Raymond, This group has really gone quiet but I guess it’s the calm down time after the storm, hahaha.  I hope that more people join up and that we can make this the best support group out there.  I belong to quite a few message boards for children with learning difficulties, dyslexia, homeschooling etc. but I really like this one because it is the only one that has members from all over the world.  Most of the others are just U.S. and Canada.  I wish I could hear Fiona’s accent right now, hahaha.  I love the Australian accents. I could listen to them speak for hours.  Irish and Scottish to. There really is a lack of understanding about dyslexia out there.  I have a cousin who is almost 50 and I’m sure that because of all of the stress and lack of success he had all of his life, it has affected him mentally with depression.  By the time he was in high school, he was trying to commit suicide which put him in the mental health sector of treatment and the wheels just kept on going round and round.  I really feel that if his dyslexia was diagnosed (which I believe is the root problem), maybe he would have had more success and life would have been different for him.  Who knows.  From the stories that I’ve heard, people put so much pressure on him, considering him lazy and the list goes on. Someone posted an article on one of the message boards just today about a study that had been done in England if I’m not mistaken.  I’ll post it at the end of this message.  I use my poor little guy as a guinea pig,  I try all different kinds of things and then see how he processes it.  I really believe the studies that say dyslexics use a different part of the brain which is less effective for language.  That’s one of the reasons I find tapping so affective.  They say that most people use the left hemisphere to process language, be it oral or written.  A dyslexic uses the right hemisphere.  Now we all know that the left hemisphere controls the right part of our body and vice versa.  If I have him tap out a word with his right hand, he will automatically use the left side of his brain. Tapping the word also helps him segment the sounds.  I’m not a scientist but this is the impression I get when I watch my son learn.  The tapping definitely helped so if I put it together with other studies that I’ve read, it would make sense. People with expressive and receptive language problems are no where near retarded.  I have our son’s evaluations to prove that. Hey Raymond, I haven’t spoken to you for awhile so I haven’t told you the good news.  We’ve started the testing stages with the SLP and the results have been blowing everyone away.  I haven’t got all of the numbers in yet because we’ve just started but here’s what I’ve got so far. Sentence structure he went from a 5 (June 2003) to an 8 (May 2004) Word classes he went from a 9 to a 13 Concepts and directions he went from a 4 to an 8 I’ll explain these a bit so that they make sense.  They break language up into different expressive and receptive categories.  Any score from a 7 to 13 would be classified as normal.  His SLP explained that most of the time, even if there was improvement, the scores would be the same or lower because the child is a year older and more is expected from them.  These results prove a lot.  If language difficulties meant retarded, we would never see this kind of improvement. Well Raymond, I really hope that Dominic grows up to be as ambitious as you are.  Just by reading your posts, you would never know that you have dyslexia.  I know that just hearing your story and your successes because of the early intervention helps gives me the strength and conviction that what we are doing is the right thing.  Mainstreaming all of the children (dyslexics, autistic, retarded) is what they do here and the services like you received just don’t exist.  Homeschooling seemed to be our only option and believe me, not a popular one.  Hearing that being understood and loved for who you are, multisensory programs and special attention was the reason for your success proves to me that we are on the right track.  Thank you Well, I’m off.  Poor Dominic has a cold today and is sleeping.  I’ll go and check up on him and then get some lunch on the table. Take care Kathy Words in the Brain: Reading Program Spurs Neural Rewrite In Kids       [By Bruce Bower for Science News Online. Week of May 8, 2004; Vol. 165, No. 19.] http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040508/fob1.asp       A new brain-imaging study indicates that a specially designed program for second and third graders deficient in reading boosts their reading skills while prodding their brains to respond to written material in the same way that the brains of good readers do. The same investigation found that the remedial instruction typically offered to poor readers in the nation’s schools doesn’t improve their skills and fails to ignite activity in brain areas that have been linked to effective reading.       Good teaching can change the brain in a way that has the potential to benefit struggling readers, says pediatrician Sally Shaywitz of Yale University School of Medicine.       At least one in five U.S. grade-schoolers with average or above-average intelligence encounters severe difficulties in learning to read, researchers estimate. In 2000, a panel of educators and scientists convened by Congress concluded that reading disability stems primarily from difficulties in recognizing the correspondence between speech sounds and letters.       Panel member Sally Shaywitz, along with Bennett A. Shaywitz, a neurologist also at Yale medical school, and their colleagues used that finding to design a brain-imaging investigation.       At the beginning and end of the school year, the investigators administered reading tests and functional magnetic resonance imaging scans to three groups of children, ages 6 to 9, attending school in New York or Connecticut. The brain scans were taken as each volunteer tried to identify written letters that matched spoken letters.       In one of the groups, 37 underachieving readers were given experimental tutoring that consisted of 50 minutes of daily, individual instruction in letters and combinations of letters that represent speech sounds called phonemes. The lessons also focused on development of fluency in reading words, oral reading of stories, and spelling.       Another 12 deficient readers received standard remedial reading and special education programs in their schools. These students didn’t receive explicit instruction in learning to recognize how letters correspond to phonemes.       A third group, this one consisting of 28 good readers, received regular classroom instruction.       At the end of the school year, only poor readers in the experimental program showed marked gains in reading accuracy, speed, and comprehension, the researchers report in the May 1 Biological Psychiatry. Good readers still exhibited the strongest literacy, but the poor readers who received phonetically based instruction had closed the gap considerably.       After poor readers completed the experimental program, their brains displayed pronounced activity in several of the same left-brain areas that are active when good readers do reading-related tasks. In an earlier study of poor readers, Sally Shaywitz and Bennett Shaywitz found that one of those neural regions remains inactive as these kids grow up. Preliminary evidence from other researchers indicates that this structure, located near the back of the brain, fosters immediate recognition of familiar written words and is thus crucial for fluent reading, Sally Shaywitz says.       Students who had completed the experimental tutoring program still displayed improved reading scores and

… read more »

Response:

Hi, I want to thank you for pointing out to Ted that he has been rather unsupportive here. I feel that nobody can really share information about their experiences with Dyslexia and just their views of Dyslexia without him being rather rude and condescending as well as accusing them of being wrong. I feel that it is one of the reasons that this group is small. I agree with you on that. I posted messages here because I want to share my experiences as a Dyslexic and to show how I was misunderstood. I wanted to share those experiences with others to show others that they are not alone and that I can easily empathize with the problems that Dyslexics have. I also wanted to point out that a lot of people with learning disabilities(USA version) can be misdiagnosed with certain mental illnesses. Ted seems to get the idea that all Dyslexics are the same, and they aren’t. I feel that it is very insensitive of him to put down his fellow Dyslexics including calling them idiots. Belittling a Dyslexic’s intelligence is one of the worst things that you can do to him or her. He made some statements about Dyslexics cannot have speech problems, but that is contrary to what the International Dyslexia Association says. Furthermore, speech problems aren’t the result of mental retardation. Speech problems can occur due to problems with auditory processing, and that was why I had speech problems. If you read about CAPD(Central Auditory Processing Disorder), you will see that speech problems is a common symptom of that disorder. Dysphasia is also a condition that has to do with speech problems, and that has nothing to do with mental retardation. Dyspraxia can involve speech problems. There is such thing as Verbal Dyspraxia which has to do with speech problems due to motor coordination problems. People with expressive and/or receptive language aren’t necessarily retarded. Ted also said that you cannot have other conditions along with Dyslexia, and that is not true. A lot of research shows that comorbidity is the rule and not the exception. There is a significant comorbidity of Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,and ADHD as well as sensory integration disorder. Those conditions can overlap with anxiety,depression,and bipolar. I do believe that those mental health problems can actually be from painful experiences that have to do with their learning disabilities and ADHD that including being ostracized,teased,bullied,and abused. I pray that we can all share our insights without being insulted.I want to learn from all of you, but I won’t sit here and read somebody’s posting that disregards my own experiences with Dyslexia and be inconsiderate about my feelings. I don’t like others being disrespected either for being different when it comes to how their Dyslexia manifests. If there is one thing that I learned from being a misunderstood and mistreated Dyslexic, it is compassion. and so I cannot bear to see somebody suffer without me wanting to help alleviate his or her pain. After 1 year of reading about Dyslexia and other learning disorders, I decided to get a learning disability and ADHD assessment. My mom thought I had all of the Dyslexic speech,auditory perceptual,and motor coordination symptoms of Dyslexia as a kid. She also thought that I had all 9 of the ADHD,inattentive symptoms as a kid. She is going to tell the psychologist about my developmental history including my 3 yrs of special education that including speech therapy and phonics. I did 6 hours of testing including IQ testing and TOVA(computerized continuous performance test for ADHD). I am getting my results in 2 weeks. I am already in Massage Therapy school, and I plan on furthering my holistic health education by attending Acupressure Institute. I also am considering about going back to school to get a degree in psychology because I want to help my fellow learning disabled(US version) and ADHD including especially children. I also want to be a transpersonal psychologist whom people can share their spiritual perceptions with. I also want to be a counselor to highly sensitive people because I don’t believe that high sensitivity is a disorder that needs to be medicated nor ridiculed. I also believe that high sensitivity is not a bad trait for males to have. I want to thank you again for being honest,forthright, and direct with Ted. I wish the best for your son. I strongly believe that he will overcome his Dyslexic problems. If I can do it, I know that he can. I was a severe case, but a great special ed teacher by the name of Sue Ann Miller(in Ethel I Baker in Sacramento California) helped me a great deal. I wish that I could meet her again and thank her. The last time I saw her, I left without really saying "Goodbye" to her. I had such a chip on my shoulder from dealing with taunts from other kids for being a "retard" even though I have above average intelligence. I wish that I had given her a hug and thanked her for everything. I know that I felt unlucky being in special ed, but I realized that I was actually lucky because I got early intervention that helped me to develop good verbal skills. I wish that all Dyslexics can be so lucky. Raymond

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Hi, I don’t have time for a full reply, but just for the record one can be both dyslexic and have a speech problem. I know, I have. Re intelligence, before I gave up work to go to university, I was one of my last employers top engineers, (a multi-national). But I do agree that if people see you stutter they think something must be wrong. My biased opinion is, it is them. — Javron Go Placidly Amid The Noise & Haste, & Remember What Peace There May Be In Silence. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Raymond, This group has really gone quiet but I guess it’s the calm down time after the storm, hahaha.  I hope that more people join up and that we can make this the best support group out there.  I belong to quite a few message boards for children with learning difficulties, dyslexia, homeschooling etc. but I really like this one because it is the only one that has members from all over the world.  Most of the others are just U.S. and Canada.  I wish I could hear Fiona’s accent right now, hahaha.  I love the Australian accents. I could listen to them speak for hours.  Irish and Scottish to. There really is a lack of understanding about dyslexia out there.  I have a cousin who is almost 50 and I’m sure that because of all of the stress and lack of success he had all of his life, it has affected him mentally with depression.  By the time he was in high school, he was trying to commit suicide which put him in the mental health sector of treatment and the wheels just kept on going round and round.  I really feel that if his dyslexia was diagnosed (which I believe is the root problem), maybe he would have had more success and life would have been different for him.  Who knows.  From the stories that I’ve heard, people put so much pressure on him, considering him lazy and the list goes on. Someone posted an article on one of the message boards just today about a study that had been done in England if I’m not mistaken.  I’ll post it at the end of this message.  I use my poor little guy as a guinea pig,  I try all different kinds of things and then see how he processes it.  I really believe the studies that say dyslexics use a different part of the brain which is less effective for language.  That’s one of the reasons I find tapping so affective.  They say that most people use the left hemisphere to process language, be it oral or written.  A dyslexic uses the right hemisphere.  Now we all know that the left hemisphere controls the right part of our body and vice versa.  If I have him tap out a word with his right hand, he will automatically use the left side of his brain.  Tapping the word also helps him segment the sounds.  I’m not a scientist but this is the impression I get when I watch my son learn.  The tapping definitely helped so if I put it together with other studies that I’ve read, it would make sense. People with expressive and receptive language problems are no where near retarded.  I have our son’s evaluations to prove that. Hey Raymond, I haven’t spoken to you for awhile so I haven’t told you the good news.  We’ve started the testing stages with the SLP and the results have been blowing everyone away.  I haven’t got all of the numbers in yet because we’ve just started but here’s what I’ve got so far. Sentence structure he went from a 5 (June 2003) to an 8 (May 2004) Word classes he went from a 9 to a 13 Concepts and directions he went from a 4 to an 8 I’ll explain these a bit so that they make sense.  They break language up into different expressive and receptive categories.  Any score from a 7 to 13 would be classified as normal.  His SLP explained that most of the time, even if there was improvement, the scores would be the same or lower because the child is a year older and more is expected from them.  These results prove a lot.  If language difficulties meant retarded, we would never see this kind of improvement. Well Raymond, I really hope that Dominic grows up to be as ambitious as you are.  Just by reading your posts, you would never know that you have dyslexia.  I know that just hearing your story and your successes because of the early intervention helps gives me the strength and conviction that what we are doing is the right thing.  Mainstreaming all of the children (dyslexics, autistic, retarded) is what they do here and the services like you received just don’t exist.  Homeschooling seemed to be our only option and believe me, not a popular one.  Hearing that being understood and loved for who you are, multisensory programs and special attention was the reason for your success proves to me that we are on the right track.  Thank you Well, I’m off.  Poor Dominic has a cold today and is sleeping.  I’ll go and check up on him and then get some lunch on the table. Take care Kathy Words in the Brain: Reading Program Spurs Neural Rewrite In Kids       [By Bruce Bower for Science News Online. Week of May 8, 2004; Vol. 165, No. 19.] http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20040508/fob1.asp       A new brain-imaging study indicates that a specially designed program for second and third graders deficient in reading boosts their reading skills while prodding their brains to respond to written material in the same way that the brains of good readers do. The same investigation found that the remedial instruction typically offered to poor readers in the nation’s schools doesn’t improve their skills and fails to ignite activity in brain areas that have been linked to effective reading.       Good teaching can change the brain in a way that has the potential to benefit struggling readers, says pediatrician Sally Shaywitz of Yale University School of Medicine.       At least one in five U.S. grade-schoolers with average or above-average intelligence encounters severe difficulties in learning to read, researchers estimate. In 2000, a panel of educators and scientists convened by Congress concluded that reading disability stems primarily from difficulties in recognizing the correspondence between speech sounds and letters.       Panel member Sally Shaywitz, along with Bennett A. Shaywitz, a neurologist also at Yale medical school, and their colleagues used that finding to design a brain-imaging investigation.       At the beginning and end of the school year, the investigators administered reading tests and functional magnetic resonance imaging scans to three groups of children, ages 6 to 9, attending school in New York or Connecticut. The brain scans were taken as each volunteer tried to identify written letters that matched spoken letters.       In one of the groups, 37 underachieving readers were given experimental tutoring that consisted of 50 minutes of daily, individual instruction in letters and combinations of letters that represent speech sounds called phonemes. The lessons also focused on development of fluency in reading words, oral reading of stories, and spelling.       Another 12 deficient readers received standard remedial reading and special education programs in their schools. These students didn’t receive explicit instruction in learning to recognize how letters correspond to phonemes.       A third group, this one consisting of 28 good readers, received regular classroom instruction.       At the end of the school year, only poor readers in the experimental program showed marked gains in reading accuracy, speed, and comprehension, the researchers report in the May 1 Biological Psychiatry. Good readers still exhibited the strongest literacy, but the poor readers who received phonetically based instruction had closed the gap considerably.       After poor readers completed the experimental program, their brains displayed pronounced activity in several of the same left-brain areas that are active when good readers do reading-related tasks. In an earlier study of poor readers, Sally Shaywitz and Bennett Shaywitz found that one of those neural regions remains inactive as these kids grow up. Preliminary evidence from other researchers indicates that this structure, located near the back of the brain, fosters immediate recognition of familiar written words and is thus crucial for fluent reading, Sally Shaywitz says.       Students who had completed the experimental tutoring program still displayed improved reading scores and associated left-brain activation when measured 1 year later.       Bruce D. McCandliss, a neuroscientist at Weill Medical College of Cornell University in New York City, calls the new report a landmark study. It builds upon similar findings by other research teams that tracked much smaller numbers of poor readers given phonological instruction, he notes.       The Yale group now plans to study children who will be randomly assigned to different types of reading programs.

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Question:

I haven’t seen any strategies to date but you could probably get some good information from your local dyslexia association.   If you do find some great information, please let us know.  Someone else made the same type of request for help and I was planning on introducing the recorder to our son as part of our curriculum next year.  In the meantime, I will also keep my eyes open. Take care Kathy   I am a adult and I have dyspraxia, which dyslexia is a part of. I would like to learn to play keyboards/piano any suggestions of how to learn or web-sites that I can look at.

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I am a adult and I have dyspraxia, which dyslexia is a part of. I would like to learn to play keyboards/piano any suggestions of how to learn or web-sites that I can look at.

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I don’t know what Autism spectrum children are classified as now, but it is NOT "Specific Learning disability" looking at your address, it appears that you are  a Brit.  Brit terms are not quite the same as the rest of the world. In Brit speak, what you call "learning disabled" we call "severly retarded".

Dear Ted In the UK people with dyslexia, adhd, aspergers, dyspraxia etc are said to have specific learning difficulties. Those you call retarded (what a horrible expression) we refer to as having a learning disability. Perhaps it’s because over here our use of language is a little more subtle and refined:-) Ann

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Hi I just want to say that the total IQ score doesn’t tell the whole story. Dr Larry Silver even points out that low scores on portions of IQ tests can depress overall IQ tests. Usually people with learning disabilities have very uneven scores on IQ tests. They can score in the superior and even very superior range on certain portions on a test in spite of scoring low in other portions of the test. Dr Silver advises to get information on all portions of the IQ test to checked for areas where there shows significant uneveneness. A learning disabled person might show to be of just average intelligence when it comes tooverall IQ, but they can show to have above average intelligence from scoring high on certain parts of the test.  I took a basic skills test last year for Veteran Vocational Rehabiliation, and my scores were uneven. My overrall score on the basic skills test was 117, and that is considered high average. However, the scores were uneven.  I scored 126 in Reading, and that is in the Superior Range. I scored 137 in Writing,and that is in the Very Superior Range. I scored 99 in Math,and that is in the Average Range. As you can see, my Math was significantly lower than my Reading and Writing. I have had significantly uneven scores on standardized tests all my life. I also had CAPS test that was uneven. I scored 2 in Mechanical Reasoning, and that is in the 8 percentile which is low range. I scored 3 in Spatial Relations, and that is in the 17 percentile which is below average range. I scored 5 in Verbal Reasoning, Numerical Operations,Perceptual Speed/Accuracy,and Manual Speed/Dexterity, and that is in the 50 percentile which is average range. I scored 9 in Language Usage and Word Knowledge, and that is in 98 percentile which is very high range. As you can see, my Mechanical Reasoning and Spatial Relations was much lower than all the others. My Language Usage and Word Knowledge was much higher than all the others.  Those are examples of very uneven standardized tests. Also, people can score differently on certain tests too. I wasn’t always a good reader. I was a late talker, and my speech problems were caught in daycare. The nuns asked my mom what language I spoke because I was talking and they couldn’t understand me at all. I got checked out, and the specialists concluded that I wasn’t hearing things correctly and that people had to slow down when talking to me. I also had fine motor skill problems, and so a therapist worked on my coordination. This was in my daycare/preschool years.  If it wasn’t for intensive phonics, I would not be able to read. A lot of Dyslexics don’t qualify for special education because their Dyslexia is not severe, but that was not the case for me. My Dyslexia was so severe that I went from regular kindergarten class to special education class in first grade. I felt so unlucky because I was in special education class and being called "retard" by the regular kids all the time, but I was actually very lucky because I learned to read and eventually excelled in language as I got older. Therefore my weaknesses were addressed and gradually developed into strengths. Specialists predicted that I would be back in regular class in 7th grade, but I was being mainstreamed in 2nd grade. They contributed that to my having a high IQ. I was B average student as a regular student in 7th grade, and I even got an award for being outstanding in Language. So much for specialist’s predictions! I notice that I get disoriented with words a lot, and so I get confused easily. That significantly affects me on tests all the time. I can easily do poorly on an easy question, but I can somehow do great on difficult questions. I also do better with manipulating shapes when doing them with my hands then trying to arrange them when they are on paper. I also passed the admissions test which included spatial relations in order to get into the Computer Drafting/Animations program at ITT Technical Institute. I used my vivid imagination to move shapes in my mind’s eye, and it helped me pass the test. My mind is far more feeling-oriented,intuitive,and imaginative than logical and rational. My mother is the same way. I go by how things or people feel usually. I have problems with short term memory,and I can not learn at all from people lecturing. My mother is the same way. She never even went to high school, and she thought she wasn’t intelligent. I even have problems remembering words that I read from books. I am having that problem in Massage Therapy Class right now, but I can easily visualize massage moves and that helps me do massage well. I can remember actual performances far more than I can remember words. I have problems with bright lights in classrooms because I am highly sensitive person. I can relate to sensory integration disorder, but my problem is with oversensitivity to external stimuli and not undersensitivity to external stimuli unless my mind has wandered off in daydreams. I do daydream very easily because my imagination is overactive. I think in pictures nonstop. I use my imagination to compensate for my problems with memory. I am prone to freudian slips when it comes to talking orally and in chatrooms. I do still have word retrieval problems at times. Reading about learning disabilities and ADHD have really helped me to understand myself which has resulted in increase of my self esteem. It has helped me to confront psychiatrists who label me with psychiatric disorders that I don’t have just because I am more sensitive and emotional than "normal" and speak rapidly,clumsy with speech,problems with confusion,and show disorientation when it comes understanding words. I honestly feel that psychiatrists aren’t that perceptive and so it results in a lot of people getting misdiagnosed. That’s why I have been writing articles about learning disabled getting misdiagnosed as mentally ill. I even read the book, THE BIPOLAR CHILD. Learning Disabilities was listed as one of the common symptoms and traits in bipolar children and oversensitivity to environmental influences was listed as one of the very common symptoms and traits in bipolar children. I know that I am both highly sensitive and learning disabled myself, and I was misdiagnosed as bipolar. Now I just have diagnosis of Anxiety and Depression disorders,and it’s all related to my insecurity and lack of self esteem. I never really had much self esteem. I never felt superior in any way. I always had an inferior complex, and I am working on that. Training for a career in which I can utilize my high sensitivity to help others is great for me. I want to spend the rest of my life helping others because I believe that is my spiritual path. I hope that all the learning disabled get the help that they need to succeed in life. I thank God that I was helped. Belief in one’s self is a key to success. Raymond – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –    His testing was done independently(by a recommended psycologists who  has tested kids for 30 years), and when the school tested him (later) they  said that his first ascessment was basically wrong, that he doesn’t have  superior intelligence ( 1st test said IQ was 126)  the school tested him (all  written no verbal) and they said his IQ is 115 and that since he is getting "A’s  and B’s" for the most part he is actually working above his intelligence level and they can’t or won’t help him.  any advice on this one? I am a whole range of emotions and I wonder if I’m doing the right thing by not  insisting that my son could be helped now before he fails. I feel like I am in over  my head.  any help would be appreciated .     I don’t have any experience with children, but others here should be able to help. Where are you from, since things would be different if you were in the US, or the UK, or Australia.     From what I’ve heard, there are laws on the books saying that if you can prove (in other words have an assessment done with the proper tests which does cost money) that your child has a dyslexia, then the school district has to give him the help he needs.     Other than that, there are always private schools which may be more equipped and, since you’re paying for it, more eager to help your son, but those do cost money and we don’t really know if you can afford it.     I’d say if you have the money for it, go to a private school, even if your children don’t have learning disabilities.

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with the exception of people who are PHYSICALY disabled, most people who can neither read or write are developmentaly disabled – NOT intelligent. Autistics have broad communication dificulties, but it is often impossible to acuratly determine the intelligence of an autistic child –   Due to the difference between the  tests and their view of the world, I think thas they would generaly have higher IQ than can be demonstrated by testing. I don’t know what Autism spectrum children are classified as now, but it is NOT "Specific Learning disability" looking at your address, it appears that you are  a Brit.  Brit terms are not quite the same as the rest of the world. In Brit speak, what you call "learning disabled" we call "severly retarded", Whe callo dyslexics and discalculics "learning disab;ed", – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – You know what we call people who can not read, and can not speek – "developmently disabled" Do you really call intelligent people who have difficulty with reading and speaking developmentally disabled? Not a specific language disability? Used to be "retarded" But I

Question:

I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know. I have a 7 year daughter who is dyslexic and I am looking for some programs that do work. Thanks Stephanie

Hi the following link may be of use to you it is for a DVD dealing with  Complementary Childcare – Autism, Behavioural Problems And Dyslexia <A HREF="http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/B0000AE7AH/cookingandfit-21"Complementary Childcare – Autism,…</A HTH www.cookingandfitness.com

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I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know.

There are 2 study methods that seem to work best for dyslexics.  One is the Orton-Gillingham method and the other is Wilson Language.  There is all sorts of info available of the web — start with interdys.org (the international dyslexia association) and start from there.  Hope this helps.

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I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know. I have a 7 year daughter who is dyslexic and I am looking for some programs that do work. Thanks Stephanie

its a very quiet newsgroup, but for what its worth i’m fully stamented up dyslexic but as i’m 28 its been a while since i’ve been to school, have you had a report back telling you what her weakness are? one thing i’ve found useful is a franklyn spell checker looks like a calualtor. most spellcheckers are baskly just typo checkers ones on word etc… as to progams i assume you mean training?  dunno about the usa system looking at your addy your from rochister area by looks. what did work with me was learning the rules of the langage so even if i couldn’t spell a word i could using phonics and knowladge of the rules get close enought, on good days any way! um what i’m saying is there is no magic cure but good training and she has been "caught" young means she should be fine, yes it will be hard work but the fact she is so young is encouraging. i have a friend in usa with a dyslexic kid when i next see her in irc i will ask her. roger

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I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know. I have a 7 year daughter who is dyslexic and I am looking for some programs that do work. Thanks Stephanie

Hi Stephanie, I am a 37 year old dyslexic and it was only until a few years ago that I started to face upto my problems and get some help. I live in the UK so all my contact are based over here, but you should try reading the following book "The Gift Of Dyslexia" by Ron Davis a dyslexic ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/103-9739332-4181463 ). You might also find this web site http://www.davisdyslexia.com useful. Good luck and if I can be of any more help please email me. Regards, Dominic

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I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know. I have a 7 year daughter who is dyslexic and I am looking for some programs that do work. Thanks Stephanie

Response:

I thought this was a dyslexia support site?? Am I wrong??? If there is anyone who know about dyslexia and some of the courses that work. Please let me know. I have a 7 year daughter who is dyslexic and I am looking for some programs that do work. Thanks Stephanie

Hi it is quiet here. I am reading a book at the moment called "Overcoming Dyslexia" by Dr Bev

Question:

<Total snip of a wonderful story of success which people can find on http://groups.google.co.uk/groups?dq=&hl=en&lr=lang_en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UT… Fantastic that you’ve discovered what’s taken me about 30 years to work out for myself Lisa, and so pleased that Luke’s now doing so well That’s one of the things about me too, I just say EXACTLY what’s in my head, then suffer the consequences :-0 The best of luck in keeping most of your skeletons in the cupboard ;~} Keep us up to date with the fun & progress every so often, if it’s anything like the current success it’d be a great boost to moral for those in similar circumstances

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Lisa, Thanks for posting – it’s nice to hear about Luke’s accomplishments. Maybe in a few I’ll have to add him to the list of "famous dyslexics" on our website – it sounds like he has a flair for the dramatic and may some day achieve success on television or the big screen. I really like the way you talked about "letting go" of the dyslexia, once you had found a school for Luke where he could flourish. I think that sometimes parents do get overly involved with trying to fix the "problem" that they have labeled dyslexia, to the extent that they let the dyslexia define their child in their eyes and take over their lives.  I suppose it is the same with any other problem — probably there are pushy stage moms like the ones you had in mind when you spoke to Luke that let their kid’s acting careers take over in the same way.  But I really do think that the art of parenting is mostly in knowing how and when to let go.   It sounds like you have found wonderful schools for Luke and he must be a very talented young man — certainly he seems to have a good idea of what he wants and how to get it.   Best wishes, Abigail – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, particularly to those who recognise me from over a year ago. How have you all been? First please forgive the provocative title to my post, just wanted to get your attention – note the word "cured" is in inverted commas, and I certainly don’t want to get into a discussion about whether dyslexia can be, or indeed it should be, "cured"! I don’t intend to be as present in the group as I was some years ago but I thought you might like to know what has been happening in Luke’s life since we were last here. Well where do I begin? A little summary for those who don’t know me: We discovered Luke’s dyslexia when he was 7 years old. I recognised it immediately after seeing a TV programme on the subject. We then went through the process, familiar to a lot of you, which involved a lot of head banging and brick walls. Desperate searching for information and answers to our questions. Basically our world was turned upside down and all the projects we had needed to be re-evaluated. There was a desperate desire, in a sense, to find a way of getting back to the "norm". I became very involved in the world of dyslexia both online and off and founded a local dyslexia association which became affiliated to the BDA and has done a lot of good work. Eventually, due to a chance encounter, I moved Luke to another school. The single best thing I’ve done in his life so far!!! The school has been BRILLIANT – it would take up a whole post just to tell you about the school – a very small village school, but with a heart so big I can’t describe it. Anyway Luke is now about to move up to secondary school in September and thanks to the school I have got my happy, fun loving, kind and self-confident little boy back. Not only that but I am totally confident that the secondary school he is going to is just a much bigger version of the same school. Over the last four years I have learnt to relax and I have been confident enough to hand over responsibility for his academic education to the school – leaving me able to concentrate on all the other things that encourage the development of a happy self confident adult. Luke still has great difficulty reading and spelling but it has not stopped him having full access to the curriculum and doing extremely well in Maths and Science. He is totally at ease with his dyslexia and just sees it as a difference which makes certain things harder but other things easier – and we all have those. Dyslexia is still part of our lives and always will be, but it has much less importance now – it’s just a consideration that we take into account on a regular basis – but it’s no longer a battle. The things that are important in Luke’s life now are the following: He is a very good and popular Scout. His nickname is "dead eye Luke" because of his success on the rifle range (possibly thanks to dyslexia?). He goes camping regularly and is very independent, helping take care of young cubs who are camping for the first time. He is looking forward to camping in Europe as of next year and volunteers for all the adventurous activities – he is also particularly good at orienteering. He was one of only two swimmers from his group who moved up to the honours level (above Gold) and was selected to try out for the local competitive team – however he decided that competition swimming wasn’t for him, his teacher has suggested he start working towards life guard type qualifications. He has been – wait for it – signed up by a national model and casting agency and has modelled sports equipment for a catalogue. Last week he attended two castings, one to be a children’s TV presenter the other for a TV commercial! This is not me being a pushy mother, it was his idea and he loves it – I’m just the chauffer. Basically on the drive to school one morning he was asking me how kids get on the TV and in films, I said I didn’t know but that they probably had pushy mothers – he fixed me with a stern look and said "Well what are you waiting for? PUSH!". Anyway since he joined the agency he has loved every minute and takes the castings all in his stride. I’m a little nervous that he might get into TV because he can talk for England and is capable of telling his full life story in the queue at the post office – I’m frantically trying to think whether we have any major skeletons in the closet! ;o) His change to the big school. He is particularly looking forward to Science, Technology and also Drama. The school know this and to keep the momentum to his enthusiasm they will be monitoring carefully and providing support, particularly in Science so that he can be in a top set. He’s also looking forward to taking the bus and having the money to buy his school dinner in the canteen. So how did we do this? The single biggest factor was finding a school who cared and who we could talk to – not a specialist school; not one with high league table results – just one who believed that as parents we knew what was right for Luke as well as they did and were prepared to listen. As it turned out we didn’t need to say a lot as they did things just fine (the head had dyslexic kids herself). His dyslexia is still there, but it isn’t an issue of contention. The second thing was that we stopped trying to make him "normal" again (for want of a better word). Yes he gets literacy support, but it’s not the be all and end all. Progress is slow but in the right direction and although he may never read for pleasure, he certainly isn’t going to be illiterate. The third big thing was for me to let go of the dyslexia (once I felt confident I could and he was "safe" at school) and to concentrate on all the other things in life where he could achieve and enjoy himself. So there we have it. I’m not saying it would be the right choice for everyone but I am sure that it was the right thing for Luke. I wanted to come back and share this with you because this group was a great source of comfort, support and information when we felt rather lost and off track. Best wishes to everyone!!! Lisa

Response:

Hi all, particularly to those who recognise me from over a year ago. How have you all been? First please forgive the provocative title to my post, just wanted to get your attention – note the word "cured" is in inverted commas, and I certainly don’t want to get into a discussion about whether dyslexia can be, or indeed it should be, "cured"! I don’t intend to be as present in the group as I was some years ago but I thought you might like to know what has been happening in Luke’s life since we were last here. Well where do I begin? A little summary for those who don’t know me: We discovered Luke’s dyslexia when he was 7 years old. I recognised it immediately after seeing a TV programme on the subject. We then went through the process, familiar to a lot of you, which involved a lot of head banging and brick walls. Desperate searching for information and answers to our questions. Basically our world was turned upside down and all the projects we had needed to be re-evaluated. There was a desperate desire, in a sense, to find a way of getting back to the "norm". I became very involved in the world of dyslexia both online and off and founded a local dyslexia association which became affiliated to the BDA and has done a lot of good work. Eventually, due to a chance encounter, I moved Luke to another school. The single best thing I’ve done in his life so far!!! The school has been BRILLIANT – it would take up a whole post just to tell you about the school – a very small village school, but with a heart so big I can’t describe it. Anyway Luke is now about to move up to secondary school in September and thanks to the school I have got my happy, fun loving, kind and self-confident little boy back. Not only that but I am totally confident that the secondary school he is going to is just a much bigger version of the same school. Over the last four years I have learnt to relax and I have been confident enough to hand over responsibility for his academic education to the school – leaving me able to concentrate on all the other things that encourage the development of a happy self confident adult. Luke still has great difficulty reading and spelling but it has not stopped him having full access to the curriculum and doing extremely well in Maths and Science. He is totally at ease with his dyslexia and just sees it as a difference which makes certain things harder but other things easier – and we all have those. Dyslexia is still part of our lives and always will be, but it has much less importance now – it’s just a consideration that we take into account on a regular basis – but it’s no longer a battle. The things that are important in Luke’s life now are the following: He is a very good and popular Scout. His nickname is "dead eye Luke" because of his success on the rifle range (possibly thanks to dyslexia?). He goes camping regularly and is very independent, helping take care of young cubs who are camping for the first time. He is looking forward to camping in Europe as of next year and volunteers for all the adventurous activities – he is also particularly good at orienteering. He was one of only two swimmers from his group who moved up to the honours level (above Gold) and was selected to try out for the local competitive team – however he decided that competition swimming wasn’t for him, his teacher has suggested he start working towards life guard type qualifications. He has been – wait for it – signed up by a national model and casting agency and has modelled sports equipment for a catalogue. Last week he attended two castings, one to be a children’s TV presenter the other for a TV commercial! This is not me being a pushy mother, it was his idea and he loves it – I’m just the chauffer. Basically on the drive to school one morning he was asking me how kids get on the TV and in films, I said I didn’t know but that they probably had pushy mothers – he fixed me with a stern look and said "Well what are you waiting for? PUSH!". Anyway since he joined the agency he has loved every minute and takes the castings all in his stride. I’m a little nervous that he might get into TV because he can talk for England and is capable of telling his full life story in the queue at the post office – I’m frantically trying to think whether we have any major skeletons in the closet! ;o) His change to the big school. He is particularly looking forward to Science, Technology and also Drama. The school know this and to keep the momentum to his enthusiasm they will be monitoring carefully and providing support, particularly in Science so that he can be in a top set. He’s also looking forward to taking the bus and having the money to buy his school dinner in the canteen. So how did we do this? The single biggest factor was finding a school who cared and who we could talk to – not a specialist school; not one with high league table results – just one who believed that as parents we knew what was right for Luke as well as they did and were prepared to listen. As it turned out we didn’t need to say a lot as they did things just fine (the head had dyslexic kids herself). His dyslexia is still there, but it isn’t an issue of contention. The second thing was that we stopped trying to make him "normal" again (for want of a better word). Yes he gets literacy support, but it’s not the be all and end all. Progress is slow but in the right direction and although he may never read for pleasure, he certainly isn’t going to be illiterate. The third big thing was for me to let go of the dyslexia (once I felt confident I could and he was "safe" at school) and to concentrate on all the other things in life where he could achieve and enjoy himself. So there we have it. I’m not saying it would be the right choice for everyone but I am sure that it was the right thing for Luke. I wanted to come back and share this with you because this group was a great source of comfort, support and information when we felt rather lost and off track. Best wishes to everyone!!! Lisa

Response:

Question:

Hi, I would be interested to hear some of the specifics about this DDAT therapy too. Although I don’t know you Ian, I would say, good on Ya James

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ian, What processes do they use? How did it work for your daughter? -Pam : For all you people who don’t think very highly of this…… : : My wife had meeting with my daughters special needs teacher today, (she has : been on DDAT fro 9 months now) : : the results are as follows, she is now only 4 months behind her peers,  she : was 2 years, ) and she will be removed from special needs in September, : The result is by the time she goes to secondary school she will have caught : up : : : Thank the DDAT centre : :

Response:

I heard today of a 9 yr old boy who within 1 week of doing the DDAT exercises etc could read words that were impossible before Problem with DDAT is its expensive and they were insisting its a 100% cure rate so when it does not work for your child you feel very cheated of a mere

Question:

Mike – one further thought – if you have local parent’s support group would be worth approaching re: publicity – you may find that parent has difficulties as well as their child. Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I believe I’m dyslexic (did a few test on the net and read about the condition then things started to fall into place) and thought I had nothing more to do than find my local support group, attend a few meetings and get started on a programme that would help me. However there are no support groups for adults in my area, plenty of help for kids but nothing for adults. So being a Community Education Worker, yes I managed to go to Uni and get my degree,  I would like to set up a support group for adults living in the Fife area of Scotland. So what do I need from you guys? Well any info or thoughts you believe would be of use to me. Ideally I would like to hear from anyone who has done something similar. Is there any funding aimed specifically at dyslexics? Get your thinking caps on and lets hear from you. Mike

Response:

Hi Mike I’m a Community Development Manager with a CVS (Council for Voluntary Service).  Do you have one in your area?  If so they may be able to help you identify funding for your project – (although their remit is to provide support to the voluntary sector they often work with public sector to set up projects).  I would have thought that the amount of funding you need would be very small – just to cover the cost of a meeting place?  Why not approach the local authority to see if they have a free room they could let you use. Speak to local adult education, again they may help provide meeting space. Are there local funds you could approach – a local Community Chest,  - the Community Fund ‘Awards for All’ scheme provides funding up to

Question:

The problem is scammers like Pamela who lurk here promoting frauds "support" is NOT telling people to do things which hurt their children People like Pamela belong in jail, not in public. Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to say ??? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I did not post anything for your approval, consent or anything else from you. I posted what I do based upon personal experiences, to *share* what happened for us as a family. What worked, what didn’t work and what to be careful of. You are too hell-bent on promoting Orton methods to understand that there are different learning styles for each and every child. Because I don’t fall for your bully and intimidation tactics you have decided to go a route that is starting to annoy me and you really don’t want to annoy me Ted. Once again, do not send me email. There is not enough traffic on alt.support.dyslexia to merit an email from you. There is nothing wrong with saying something doesn’t work Ted and give the reasons why, you will notice that others are quite able to do that without resorting to name calling and sandbox tactics suited for the playground bully. Sharing of information is what is important Ted. That is why this is a *support* newsgroup. We have to deal with enough people during the day that harass our children and create a hostile learning environment for them. We don’t need that here from you. -Pam : MUCH better- : : This time you got it right, and all your urls are excellent sources. : : NOW, if you only wern’t selling scam cures. : : Carolyn, : : I have been trying to figure out how to write this without getting sucked : into Ted’s hate and anger towards anyone here that does not completely line : up to what he follows which is the International Dyslexia Association’s : methods of treating dyslexia. I hope that I have done so with the following: : : When I referenced Section 504 I was going from "memory" and actions that are : 4 years old when I was working on getting my daughter’s dyslexia identified : and accommodated. Our family has gone through a lot to make sure our : daughter (and now son…but his was easier to deal with because we are in a : new school district) was/is accommodated for her dyslexia. I noticed that : there seems to be the same issues, in the sense your daughter is successful : in everything else (grade-wise) and as a result she may not qualify for : special education services. There are many websites out there that can help : you gather this information together. One that has been helpful to me is : http://www.schwablearning.org and yes, this is Charles Schwab of financial : "fame" whom is a dyslexic. : : Another site that will be helpful is : http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/legal_legislative/edlaw504.html : : and a quote from that article: "Although parents of children with : disabilities are frequently more familiar with the Individuals with : Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), they should also acquaint themselves with : Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act (hereinafter "Section 504"). Knowledge : of both statutes, and particularly their implementing regulations, often is : necessary to be sure of securing an appropriate education for children with : disabilities. Indeed, for some children with disabilities, Section 504 may : be more important — the only legal mandate requiring education agencies to : provide special education or related services to a child with a disability." : : If you just go to http://www.ldonline.org there is a wealth of information : there too. : : And then this one was a great guide for me: : http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/plan_new_parent.html : : Gives a lot of information on what to do, how the system works and how to : advocate for your child. : : There are people here that will show up in the next couple of days to offer : suggestions, support and help. I can tell you that your family will make it : through this time and be stronger for it. My daughter is now 13 and is doing : well in school. She knows her successes come from not only in school but : what she does on her "off" time (sports, church and social activities) and I : would suggest to you that your daughter has those "down" times to be : successful in. I hope that if you have any questions that you will feel : comfortable enough posting them here, if not, you can email me. Your : questions are important and others will learn from them *hug*…Pam : : : My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : : at their cost? Please advise. : : :

Response:

Ted, Help me here please, how am I making money *exactly*?

Why try to communicate with this man? Everybody knows, he is a payed employe of the Orton gang. His only abbility is insulting people, who has a different opinion Please ignor this man and try to make a good conversation. Greetings Jack Herbert

Response:

Carolyn, I have been trying to figure out how to write this without getting sucked into Ted’s hate and anger towards anyone here that does not completely line up to what he follows which is the International Dyslexia Association’s methods of treating dyslexia. I hope that I have done so with the following: When I referenced Section 504 I was going from "memory" and actions that are 4 years old when I was working on getting my daughter’s dyslexia identified and accommodated. Our family has gone through a lot to make sure our daughter (and now son…but his was easier to deal with because we are in a new school district) was/is accommodated for her dyslexia. I noticed that there seems to be the same issues, in the sense your daughter is successful in everything else (grade-wise) and as a result she may not qualify for special education services. There are many websites out there that can help you gather this information together. One that has been helpful to me is http://www.schwablearning.org and yes, this is Charles Schwab of financial "fame" whom is a dyslexic. Another site that will be helpful is http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/legal_legislative/edlaw504.html and a quote from that article: "Although parents of children with disabilities are frequently more familiar with the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), they should also acquaint themselves with Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act (hereinafter "Section 504"). Knowledge of both statutes, and particularly their implementing regulations, often is necessary to be sure of securing an appropriate education for children with disabilities. Indeed, for some children with disabilities, Section 504 may be more important — the only legal mandate requiring education agencies to provide special education or related services to a child with a disability." If you just go to http://www.ldonline.org there is a wealth of information there too. And then this one was a great guide for me: http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/plan_new_parent.html Gives a lot of information on what to do, how the system works and how to advocate for your child. There are people here that will show up in the next couple of days to offer suggestions, support and help. I can tell you that your family will make it through this time and be stronger for it. My daughter is now 13 and is doing well in school. She knows her successes come from not only in school but what she does on her "off" time (sports, church and social activities) and I would suggest to you that your daughter has those "down" times to be successful in. I hope that if you have any questions that you will feel comfortable enough posting them here, if not, you can email me. Your questions are important and others will learn from them *hug*…Pam

: My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

The school system is required by law to test her. Notify them in writing that you beleive that your daughter is disabled within the meaning of the IDEA, that you are demanding testing for dyslexia, and that if they fail to act within ten days you demand a Due Process Hearing by the State Department of Education – contact me directly, and I will try to help you get ready, and get local help. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

MUCH better- This time you got it right, and all your urls are excellent sources. NOW, if you only wern’t selling scam cures. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carolyn, I have been trying to figure out how to write this without getting sucked into Ted’s hate and anger towards anyone here that does not completely line up to what he follows which is the International Dyslexia Association’s methods of treating dyslexia. I hope that I have done so with the following: When I referenced Section 504 I was going from "memory" and actions that are 4 years old when I was working on getting my daughter’s dyslexia identified and accommodated. Our family has gone through a lot to make sure our daughter (and now son…but his was easier to deal with because we are in a new school district) was/is accommodated for her dyslexia. I noticed that there seems to be the same issues, in the sense your daughter is successful in everything else (grade-wise) and as a result she may not qualify for special education services. There are many websites out there that can help you gather this information together. One that has been helpful to me is http://www.schwablearning.org and yes, this is Charles Schwab of financial "fame" whom is a dyslexic. Another site that will be helpful is http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/legal_legislative/edlaw504.html and a quote from that article: "Although parents of children with disabilities are frequently more familiar with the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), they should also acquaint themselves with Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act (hereinafter "Section 504"). Knowledge of both statutes, and particularly their implementing regulations, often is necessary to be sure of securing an appropriate education for children with disabilities. Indeed, for some children with disabilities, Section 504 may be more important — the only legal mandate requiring education agencies to provide special education or related services to a child with a disability." If you just go to http://www.ldonline.org there is a wealth of information there too. And then this one was a great guide for me: http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/plan_new_parent.html Gives a lot of information on what to do, how the system works and how to advocate for your child. There are people here that will show up in the next couple of days to offer suggestions, support and help. I can tell you that your family will make it through this time and be stronger for it. My daughter is now 13 and is doing well in school. She knows her successes come from not only in school but what she does on her "off" time (sports, church and social activities) and I would suggest to you that your daughter has those "down" times to be successful in. I hope that if you have any questions that you will feel comfortable enough posting them here, if not, you can email me. Your questions are important and others will learn from them *hug*…Pam : My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

Yes, the school should be providing the testing or paying for outside people to do so with respect to learning differences that are not "medical" issues. Obviously, that statement is where the confusion may be. There are a couple of things to remember as you go through this process. There are a couple of federal laws that are relevant which have already been listed.  These laws provide the floor for what the states must do to help your  child.  The particular state you are in may have higher standards. Try to find out what the state law says about all of this since each of us here may have had different, yet correct, experiences.  Obviously, you want to hold the school system to the highest standard of care.  Your school district must (I am quite certain "must" is accurate) provide you with information about the relevant laws in your states when you seek testing.. They will have a certain number of days to do the testing after you formally request it.  It sounds as if they may have done some portion of the testing already. If the school system doesn’t have the appropriate personnel to do a thorough test, you should be able to go elsewhere and get compensated for it or have the school system just pay the bill directly.  Obviously, they don’t want to do that if they don’t have to.  For that matter, they will not want to voluntarily test anyone, even in-house, since that costs money and, if it reveals anything, providing special services can be quite expensive. Is it possible that the school system actually completed the testing that they can and should do and are now considering medical issues that may impact/cause your child’s difficulties?  For an extreme example, I know a child with very serious vision issues (multiple surgeries for such a small child) who is, as of just a few months ago, no longer legally blind but still quite visually impaired.  He is very behind in school and life for that matter since he doesn’t know colors and many things that babies have already experienced and learned.  The school system can perform many tests on his development and abilities but simply cannot assess his eye muscle function and other medical details that will obviously impact on the services he needs in school–medical input is definitely needed. Make sure you review thoroughly any test results you do have (or those you get in the future) to make sure you understand what the identified problems are, whether your experience agrees with that, whether you see other things, what the proposed services entail, …..  I actually hired someone to review the test results and advise me on whether the proposed plan was appropriate for my child.  I realize that may not always be possible to do for a variety of reasons but do try to get a handle on what the various tests, services, and labels mean. The word "dyslexia" encompasses many different types of learning differences, some or all of which your child may have.  I, personally, find the word misleading since it connotes one set of circumstances when, in reality, people often find themselves with a subset of those circumstances. I mention this because it may be that you and the school personnel are not really communicating clearly with each other even if you both think you are. I am not saying this to be at all offensive, just to suggest that you try to get a handle (you may have already done this) on what, in particular they have tested for and what they have not tested for, what has been ruled as a potential difference and what has not. You may want to talk to other parents in your school or school system who have children with education plans to see how the school reacts.  Schools and school personnel can have all different reputations, and you may get a good sense on how to proceed.  Also, it has been my experience that, once you start asking (I didn’t think I knew anyone with children on an ed plan when I started to ask), you find that there are many people involved in the system who are happy to help you and who are knowledgeable. Don’t be intimidated by trolls on this newsgroup.  There are some people here who think only their particular experiences are relevant, including the legal and medical options available to them, and every other situation is tripe.  Obviously, such discussion is counterproductive.  It is also not true since dyslexia shows up as a complex constellation of issues in people. Good luck. –Maria My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  …Isn’t the

school supposed to provide the testing – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

: : : Snipped the defamatory statements : belong in jail, not in public. : : Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed : that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to : say ??? : There are times when it is a pity this is an unmoderated group. : — : I am dyslexic and therefore a creative speller! : : This is really going to far. Ted’s views are his own and do not necesarrily : represent this groups. : : Chris : ~please excuse my typing, I’m a dyslexic in a wrist brace~ Chris, There is nothing wrong with a person having their own views. There is a problem when a person starts using terms that are slanderous, libelous and defame a person’s character. These are the tactics that Ted resorts to when he can not have a straightforward discussion. I spend my time here on this newsgroup because of what we go through as a family here. There are many other things that I could do with my time then this in all honesty, but I found for myself that there are answers to what I went through when I was growing up and help to give my children the best learning opportunity that they deserve. And Ted’s obsession towards me is annoying at best now…I can’t post *anything* anymore without him pouncing on it and spewing forth his vileness. I suppose that he figures I will just go away if he continues with his abusive behavior towards me? -Pam

Response:

Thelma, It’s called "user agreements" with mail.com (iname.com’s "new" owner) and verizon.net that Ted seems to have glossed over (as he seems to do when reading anything here or elsewhere). This will all be brought to Ted’s attention soon enough. -Pam

: Snipped the defamatory statements : belong in jail, not in public. : : Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed : that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to : say ??? : There are times when it is a pity this is an unmoderated group. : — : I am dyslexic and therefore a creative speller!

Response:

My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

Snipped the defamatory statements belong in jail, not in public. Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to say ???

There are times when it is a pity this is an unmoderated group. — I am dyslexic and therefore a creative speller!

Response:

No Pamala, you just keep blathering yopur same old crap and shilling for your scammers. You threaten and threaten, but you don’t know anything your handlers don’t tell you, and you are an active menace to children with dyslexia./ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Thelma, It’s called "user agreements" with mail.com (iname.com’s "new" owner) and verizon.net that Ted seems to have glossed over (as he seems to do when reading anything here or elsewhere). This will all be brought to Ted’s attention soon enough. -Pam : Snipped the defamatory statements : belong in jail, not in public. : : Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed : that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to : say ??? : There are times when it is a pity this is an unmoderated group. : — : I am dyslexic and therefore a creative speller!

Response:

Snipped the defamatory statements belong in jail, not in public. Had to go back to your keepers after you opened your mouth and showed that the only thing you know about dyslexia is wahat you are paid to say ??? There are times when it is a pity this is an unmoderated group. — I am dyslexic and therefore a creative speller!

This is really going to far. Ted’s views are his own and do not necesarrily represent this groups. Chris ~please excuse my typing, I’m a dyslexic in a wrist brace~

Response:

Maria, One issue that we ran into was that the school psychologist said that there is no such thing as dyslexia…which stunned me to say the least! But when I went looking I found out that he was pretty much "correct" according to the standards that were set up (don’t ask me how or why). The term I found out to be relevant was "Specific Learning Disabled" when I was going through the request process. Another suggestion that was made to me by P.A.V.E. (a support group here in Washington State for advocates) was to get copies of all the testing that was done, including the notes of the test giver (not always the school psychologist I found out). Having those documents ended up being relevant in getting our daughter’s Section 504 accommodations met. I was also able to take the time to sit down and figure out the patterns that consistantly showed up from one test to the next which was supported in her school work (items that the school psychologist did not notice). Then I was able to go looking to find out what accommodations would work for her, or at the least to start trying. Our daughter was given a hearing test administered by the school, which was "normal"…but when I asked if she was going to be tested by the speech and language pathologist I met with resistance. Had to formally request the testing in writing. We had to rule out that there was an issue there since this involved reading and writing. Discovered that she does have a processing issue. The pathologist was wonderful when I told her that we weren’t looking for her to be in special education but to figure out what was going on so that she could learn to her ability (which was clearly not happening at that point). The pathologist sat down with me and went over the entire testing she did, the notes that she took and observations that she made regarding our daughter. This is when we discovered that she placed equal emphasis on each word read (difficult to explain beyond that at this point…hope you understand), which slowed her down considerably. Because of her struggles with reading and writing, she was missing completely the nuances that the other kids were learning about language (written and spoken). She also has auditory processing issues that we have worked through and know what needs to happen for her to be successful with her school work. Understanding the testing is very important, what it means and why it’s done. I hope that we hear back from Carolyn about what has been done up to this point… With Pennsylvania being such a large state it was difficult for me to find any type of advocacy group to suggest for help in wading through the process. I know that I wouldn’t have been able to figure it out on my own, P.A.V.E. was very helpful for me. -Pam

: Yes, the school should be providing the testing or paying for outside people : to do so with respect to learning differences that are not "medical" issues. : Obviously, that statement is where the confusion may be. : : There are a couple of things to remember as you go through this process. : There are a couple of federal laws that are relevant which have already been : listed.  These laws provide the floor for what the states must do to help : your  child.  The particular state you are in may have higher standards. : Try to find out what the state law says about all of this since each of us : here may have had different, yet correct, experiences.  Obviously, you want : to hold the school system to the highest standard of care.  Your school : district must (I am quite certain "must" is accurate) provide you with : information about the relevant laws in your states when you seek testing.. : They will have a certain number of days to do the testing after you formally : request it.  It sounds as if they may have done some portion of the testing : already. : : If the school system doesn’t have the appropriate personnel to do a thorough : test, you should be able to go elsewhere and get compensated for it or have : the school system just pay the bill directly.  Obviously, they don’t want to : do that if they don’t have to.  For that matter, they will not want to : voluntarily test anyone, even in-house, since that costs money and, if it : reveals anything, providing special services can be quite expensive. : : Is it possible that the school system actually completed the testing that : they can and should do and are now considering medical issues that may : impact/cause your child’s difficulties?  For an extreme example, I know a : child with very serious vision issues (multiple surgeries for such a small : child) who is, as of just a few months ago, no longer legally blind but : still quite visually impaired.  He is very behind in school and life for : that matter since he doesn’t know colors and many things that babies have : already experienced and learned.  The school system can perform many tests : on his development and abilities but simply cannot assess his eye muscle : function and other medical details that will obviously impact on the : services he needs in school–medical input is definitely needed. : : Make sure you review thoroughly any test results you do have (or those you : get in the future) to make sure you understand what the identified problems : are, whether your experience agrees with that, whether you see other things, : what the proposed services entail, …..  I actually hired someone to review : the test results and advise me on whether the proposed plan was appropriate : for my child.  I realize that may not always be possible to do for a variety : of reasons but do try to get a handle on what the various tests, services, : and labels mean. : : The word "dyslexia" encompasses many different types of learning : differences, some or all of which your child may have.  I, personally, find : the word misleading since it connotes one set of circumstances when, in : reality, people often find themselves with a subset of those circumstances. : I mention this because it may be that you and the school personnel are not : really communicating clearly with each other even if you both think you are. : I am not saying this to be at all offensive, just to suggest that you try to : get a handle (you may have already done this) on what, in particular they : have tested for and what they have not tested for, what has been ruled as a : potential difference and what has not. : : You may want to talk to other parents in your school or school system who : have children with education plans to see how the school reacts.  Schools : and school personnel can have all different reputations, and you may get a : good sense on how to proceed.  Also, it has been my experience that, once : you start asking (I didn’t think I knew anyone with children on an ed plan : when I started to ask), you find that there are many people involved in the : system who are happy to help you and who are knowledgeable. : : Don’t be intimidated by trolls on this newsgroup.  There are some people : here who think only their particular experiences are relevant, including the : legal and medical options available to them, and every other situation is : tripe.  Obviously, such discussion is counterproductive.  It is also not : true since dyslexia shows up as a complex constellation of issues in people. : : Good luck. : : –Maria : : : : My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  …Isn’t the : school supposed to provide the testing : at their cost? Please advise. : :

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I do sometimes wonder if Ted is using reverse psychology – he is so agressive to those who mention any alternative therapy that he invokes sympathy and support for his victim.  Perhaps he has an alternative motive???!! Ann

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – This is really going to far. Ted’s views are his own and do not necesarrily represent this groups. Chris ~please excuse my typing, I’m a dyslexic in a wrist brace~

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No, I just hate people like Pamala who are here to make money off of scamming parents of dyslexics – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do sometimes wonder if Ted is using reverse psychology – he is so agressive to those who mention any alternative therapy that he invokes sympathy and support for his victim.  Perhaps he has an alternative motive???!! Ann This is really going to far. Ted’s views are his own and do not necesarrily represent this groups. Chris ~please excuse my typing, I’m a dyslexic in a wrist brace~

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Ted, Help me here please, how am I making money *exactly*? Do you have a W2 or 1099 that I’m not aware of in your possession? Am I a contract worker and as thus you have a copy of my 1040 to reflect information that I’m not aware of? Your claims of me lend you *zero* credibility. Can’t you even see that or are you so paranoid and delusional that you are too far gone to understand *anything* other then your own hatred at being conned? Not *once* have I promoted any of the therapies in their *true* form. I did my reading and research. Talked to professionals (yes, even optometrist*s* Ted!) and looked at all ways to have a healthy and happy child that was able to learn to her *fullest* potential. I can’t even begin to tell you how angry you have made my daughter (yes, she has read what you have said about *her* and me). You have only listened to yourself and for you to admit that dyslexia is actually bigger then your limited understanding and what you have been force fed by your precious Orton Dyslexia Society would most likely cause you to understand that you have been conned once again (because for some reason you have to have the one True Way to follow). Because of the type of work I do, I am fully aware that there is going to be disagreement and misunderstanding when it comes to anything scientific, but the level of your anger and hatred does *nothing* but shut people down that are like my daughter. You have *never* once answered to my questions of you calling my daughter a liar, why is that Ted? What is it that you are afraid of, that she actually got benefit from a colored plastic overlay that cost less then $2.00? That *FOR HER* this was a help? That I actually *know* and *understand* that dyslexia is complex and each individual has their own unique support tools that will work for them? You don’t see me slamming speech recognition software do you Ted? My daughter doesn’t need it and using your logic, then the rest of those dyslexics shouldn’t either and it’s just a huge money making scam (I do not believe this…making that point straight). Can you see that illogic? I have never *once* said to go to Irlen and get their overpriced glasses. Not once. But you made a decision long ago about me Ted and have since been on your vile rant since. From what I can tell, it is when I poke you with a truth that you don’t want to hear is when you literally go off the emotional deep end. This current round is because you are well aware that research regarding dyslexia and just reading is changing in the scientific community due to the attention paid to it from multiple scientific sources. And finally, I hope you do understand that your claim of my being employed as claim I am *IS* defamation of character. I do not agree with how these various "businesses" are run (including the Orton Society) and by your continued need to associate me with them actually does potential financial damage to me in my life outside of this newsgroup. Knowing how you behave here and elsewhere on the internet, I am well aware this will not "stop" you or at the least just get you to leave me alone unless you truly are going to have an actual discussion with me. All I can say is that I have tried in various ways to warn you Ted that the direction you take with me is really not a path you want to go down. -Pam

: No, I just hate people like Pamala who are here to make money off of : scamming parents of dyslexics :

: I do sometimes wonder if Ted is using reverse psychology – he is so : agressive to those who mention any alternative therapy that he invokes : sympathy and support for his victim.  Perhaps he has an alternative : motive???!! : : Ann : : : This is really going to far. Ted’s views are his own and do not : : necesarrily : : represent this groups. : : Chris : ~please excuse my typing, I’m a dyslexic in a wrist brace~ : : : :

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Carolyn, Sounds like your daughter is a lot like mine. Did the school already do some testing for you to have the IQ scores? I know the school that my daughter was going to at the time needed us to take her to the family physician to rule out anything medical that could be going on (hearing and sight) so we did those. Somewhat a process of elimination. I would suggest that you get in writing exactly what the school district is wanting from you. Was this recommended by the school psychologist? If there is an IEP, is there a plan on the part of the school regarding what they will do for your daughter? If your daughter falls under the Section 504 of the IDEA I can tell you that you and your daughter will need to learn to advocate because Section 504 has no federal funding and as a result schools tend to place all the tutoring and help onto the parent(s) and/or children. But there are ways that your daughter can be accommodated in the classroom that don’t cost the school district a dime and would help your daughter (and the rest of the class too). If you feel comfortable telling us more here on the newsgroup…please do. I would be happy to let you know more of what the school was "forced" to do for my daughter too. If you could let us know what testing has actually been done (suspecting some has had been done for you to get the IQ scores at this point) would be helpful. And I will let my daughter know that there is a 9 y/o pretty much in the same boat she was, thinking she may like to talk to her? I know my daughter has been wanting to talk to other dyslexic children but I won’t let her near this board because a particular adult here is rather adamant that she is a liar about her dyslexia. -Pam

: My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : at their cost? Please advise.

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Pamela, PLEASE if you want to hand out information, at least TRY to get it right  IDEA starts with section 601, and has no section 504 AS USUAL, you you’re WRONG. You PROBABLY have it confused with the Rehabilitation Act (which at least has a section 504) Or possibly the Internal Revenue Code – who can guess?  - but, stick to Helen’s lenses and leave the facts to people who are not active promoters of frauds – like you You have never read either act, or the regulations, let alone the court decisions – so take your scam spectecles and your other snake oil cures and GO AWAY – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Carolyn, Sounds like your daughter is a lot like mine. Did the school already do some testing for you to have the IQ scores? I know the school that my daughter was going to at the time needed us to take her to the family physician to rule out anything medical that could be going on (hearing and sight) so we did those. Somewhat a process of elimination. I would suggest that you get in writing exactly what the school district is wanting from you. Was this recommended by the school psychologist? If there is an IEP, is there a plan on the part of the school regarding what they will do for your daughter? If your daughter falls under the Section 504 of the IDEA I can tell you that you and your daughter will need to learn to advocate because Section 504 has no federal funding and as a result schools tend to place all the tutoring and help onto the parent(s) and/or children. But there are ways that your daughter can be accommodated in the classroom that don’t cost the school district a dime and would help your daughter (and the rest of the class too). If you feel comfortable telling us more here on the newsgroup…please do. I would be happy to let you know more of what the school was "forced" to do for my daughter too. If you could let us know what testing has actually been done (suspecting some has had been done for you to get the IQ scores at this point) would be helpful. And I will let my daughter know that there is a 9 y/o pretty much in the same boat she was, thinking she may like to talk to her? I know my daughter has been wanting to talk to other dyslexic children but I won’t let her near this board because a particular adult here is rather adamant that she is a liar about her dyslexia. -Pam : My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : at their cost? Please advise.

Response:

I did not post anything for your approval, consent or anything else from you. I posted what I do based upon personal experiences, to *share* what happened for us as a family. What worked, what didn’t work and what to be careful of. You are too hell-bent on promoting Orton methods to understand that there are different learning styles for each and every child. Because I don’t fall for your bully and intimidation tactics you have decided to go a route that is starting to annoy me and you really don’t want to annoy me Ted. Once again, do not send me email. There is not enough traffic on alt.support.dyslexia to merit an email from you. There is nothing wrong with saying something doesn’t work Ted and give the reasons why, you will notice that others are quite able to do that without resorting to name calling and sandbox tactics suited for the playground bully. Sharing of information is what is important Ted. That is why this is a *support* newsgroup. We have to deal with enough people during the day that harass our children and create a hostile learning environment for them. We don’t need that here from you. -Pam

: MUCH better- : : This time you got it right, and all your urls are excellent sources. : : NOW, if you only wern’t selling scam cures. :

: Carolyn, : : I have been trying to figure out how to write this without getting sucked : into Ted’s hate and anger towards anyone here that does not completely line : up to what he follows which is the International Dyslexia Association’s : methods of treating dyslexia. I hope that I have done so with the following: : : When I referenced Section 504 I was going from "memory" and actions that are : 4 years old when I was working on getting my daughter’s dyslexia identified : and accommodated. Our family has gone through a lot to make sure our : daughter (and now son…but his was easier to deal with because we are in a : new school district) was/is accommodated for her dyslexia. I noticed that : there seems to be the same issues, in the sense your daughter is successful : in everything else (grade-wise) and as a result she may not qualify for : special education services. There are many websites out there that can help : you gather this information together. One that has been helpful to me is : http://www.schwablearning.org and yes, this is Charles Schwab of financial : "fame" whom is a dyslexic. : : Another site that will be helpful is : http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/legal_legislative/edlaw504.html : : and a quote from that article: "Although parents of children with : disabilities are frequently more familiar with the Individuals with : Disabilities Education Act (IDEA), they should also acquaint themselves with : Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act (hereinafter "Section 504"). Knowledge : of both statutes, and particularly their implementing regulations, often is : necessary to be sure of securing an appropriate education for children with : disabilities. Indeed, for some children with disabilities, Section 504 may : be more important — the only legal mandate requiring education agencies to : provide special education or related services to a child with a disability." : : If you just go to http://www.ldonline.org there is a wealth of information : there too. : : And then this one was a great guide for me: : http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/plan_new_parent.html : : Gives a lot of information on what to do, how the system works and how to : advocate for your child. : : There are people here that will show up in the next couple of days to offer : suggestions, support and help. I can tell you that your family will make it : through this time and be stronger for it. My daughter is now 13 and is doing : well in school. She knows her successes come from not only in school but : what she does on her "off" time (sports, church and social activities) and I : would suggest to you that your daughter has those "down" times to be : successful in. I hope that if you have any questions that you will feel : comfortable enough posting them here, if not, you can email me. Your : questions are important and others will learn from them *hug*…Pam : : : My 9 year old daughter has been labeled by IEP as learning disabled. : : I am almost certain she has dyslexia. Her father does, also.  She gets : : A+’s in everything but spelling, reading.  Her IQ is between average : : and above average. The school system she goes to in Pa told me I have : : to take her to my family doctor to have her tested for dyslexia : : because it is a medical problem. I am a single mother of two, and have : : no health coverage. Isn’t the school supposed to provide the testing : : at their cost? Please advise. : : :

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